MS2-Extra Ignition Hardware Manual
Only for use with the MS2-Extra code (HC9S12C64 based microprocessor - MS2 Daughter Board)
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MS2-Extra Ignition Hardware Manual Only for use with the MS2-Extra code (HC9S12C64 based microprocessor - MS2 Daughter Board) |
NOTE: Please ensure you have one of these daughter boards inside your ECU before continuing. If you have a standard black microprocessor, then you have an MS1 and these manuals are NOT for MS1 see here for MS1-Extra Manuals.
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Please Note: All of these instructions / diagrams are to be used at your own risk, like most things there is more than one way to do the same thing, what we have tried to do is to offer a method that we have tested or that others have tested for us. No warranty expressed or implied. Use at your own risk. |
Select the Ignition Setup Option for your vehicle. Next select the Trigger Input Option (depending on what Version of MS PCB you have) for the trigger type that's fitted to your engine. Then select the Spark Output Option for your setup.
Layout of MS PCB's -- Component Schematics -- List of Component Part Numbers
Ford EDIS -- Ordinary Distributor -- GM HEI, GMDIS
Trigger Return Distributor -- Ford TFI -- Missing Tooth Wheel (e.g. Ford 36-1, etc)
Dual Wheel -- Nippondenso CAS -- LS1 Trigger -- LS2 Trigger
Oddfire Distributor -- Neon/420A -- 36-2+2 (Next Gen Neon) -- 36-2-2-2
99-00 Miata -- Mitsubushi 6G72 (3000GT) -- IAW Weber-Marelli
Subaru 6/7 -- 4/1 CAS -- 4G63 (4/2 CAS) -- Renix 44-2-2
Twin Trigger -- Suzuki Swift -- Suzuki Vitara 2.0
Variable Reluctor Sensors (VR) -- Hall Effect sensors -- Points (Kettering) Input (Dizzy) -- Optical Input (Dizzy)
Second Trigger Input (VR Sensor) -- Second Trigger Input (Hall Effect Sensor)
Suggested points for Supplies inside the V3.0 ECU
List of component part numbers used in the ignition section:
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DigiKey part
numbers:
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Farnell
part numbers
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2N2222A = 497-2598-5-ND |
2N2222A = 920-7120 |
Please note: Above part numbers will need checking, some components will come with a minimum order in multiples of 5 and 10.
Unknown whether this works.
Apparently around 2006, a different 58 tooth trigger wheel and a 4 tooth cam
wheel were put into the engines. Until we have some timing data on these wheels
we don't know whether they will work as-is or whether special code is required.
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
This is new in MS2/Extra and is intended to run engines like the oddfire chevy
V6 which has a single input trigger but offset crank journals. Enter constants
as normal and on the More ignition options, specify the "Oddfire small
angle". For example on the chevy V6 of one year, the spacings are 90deg,
150deg, so enter the 90 figure.
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4, expects to run as wasted spark on the
outer two LEDs.
Use the hall input for the crank trigger.
Spark outputs come on D14 and D16
- use MS1/Extra docs as a basis for the wiring.
36-2+2 wheel (NGC / next gen Neon)
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4, expects to run as wasted spark on the
outer two LEDs.
Use the hall input for the crank trigger.
Spark outputs come on D14 and D16
36-2-2-2 (as used on RX8 and Subaru)
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4, expects to run as wasted spark on the
outer two LEDs.
Use the VR input for the crank trigger.
Spark outputs come on D14 and D16
Timing chart:
Click To ENLARGE
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4, expects to run as wasted spark on the
outer two LEDs.
Are these hall or VR ?
Use the VR input for the primary trigger (six teeth) Duplicate the VR circuit
for the second trigger (seven teeth) and output to JS10.
Spark outputs come on D14 and D16
IAW Weber-Marelli (Fiat, Lancia, Cosworth Sierra)
Example:
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4, expects to run as single coil on the
D14.
You will require two VR conditioners with the early install. The later type
(as above) uses a hall sensor for the cam signal. One is the primary tach input
from the crank sensor. The second from the dizzy goes to JS10.
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4. Incomplete code on this one.
You will require two VR conditioners. One is the primary tach input from the
crank sensor. The second from the cam goes to JS10.
Timing data:
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 6 and wasted spark. The code could run coil
on plug, but there aren't enough output pins.
Use the hall input for the primary trigger (four slots.) Duplicate the hall
circuit for the second trigger (two slots) and output to JS10.
Both inputs MUST be of the same polarity, so use exactly
the same circuit for both.
Spark outputs come on D14, D16, D15 (wasted); not enough outputs for coil on
plug.
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
This may be a 4G91 CAS
You must set number of cylinders to 4. Can be run as single coil, wasted spark
or coil on plug.
The trigger angle specifies the end of a slot in the outer ring. Be sure to
specify the slot length in the trigger return angle.
Use the hall input for the primary trigger (four slots.) Duplicate the hall
circuit for the second trigger (single slot) and output to JS10. Both inputs
must be of the same polarity.
Spark outputs come on D14 (single); D14 and D16 (wasted); D14, D16, D15, JS11
(coil on plug)
4G63 (Miata, DSM 4G63 with 4/2 CAS)
Example CAS:
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes. Tested ok 18th
April 2007.
You must set number of cylinders to 4. Can be run as single coil, wasted spark
or coil on plug.
Use the hall input for the primary trigger (four slots.) Duplicate the hall
circuit for the second trigger (two slots) and output to JS10. Both signals
MUST be of the same polarity or you will not get sync. Example wiring is “like
Neon” is MS1/Extra.
The code is setup for the stock CAS position of 10deg
at the end of the slot. Because the sizes of the vanes/slots are used for syncronisation,
the sizes are built into the code and cannot be adjusted.
Spark outputs come on D14 (single); D14 and D16 (wasted); D14, D16, D15, JS11
(coil on plug)
Second Trigger Input:
Twin trigger e.g. bike crank trigger
Example:
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4 and wasted coil output.
Typically you will require two VR conditioners. One is the primary tach input.
The second goes to JS10.
Take spark outputs from D14 and D16.
Both odd and even fire are(should be) supported. If you enable Oddfire on the
Engine Constants page you will have access to the "oddfire small angle"
on the ignition page. For a 90deg V you would enter 90deg or 270deg in here
depending in which way around you wired your triggers.
This code needs more testing – on the bench there appear to be sync issues after stall requiring a restart.
Renix 44-2-2 as used on Renault
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4 and single coil output.
Wire up a standard VR input and use D14 for spark.
Example:
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4 and single coil output.
You likely want to set you cranking advance to (say)
5deg.
Wire up a standard VR input and use D14 for spark.
Example:
Only available in MS2/Extra 2.x codes.
You must set number of cylinders to 4 and coil on plug output.
You likely want to set you cranking advance to (say)
5deg.
Wire up a standard VR input and use D14, D15, D16, JS11 for spark.
Wiring for V3.0 PCB -- Wiring for a V2.2 PCB
The Variable Reluctor (VR) sensor is an induction type sensor, it is "passive", i.e. it does not require a power source, and has a small magnet built in.
The sensor uses a magnetic pickup to produce a signal. A core of steel is wrapped with hundreds of turns of fine wire at one end. A small magnet is attached to the other end, and this assembly is mounted in the distributor facing the distributor shaft. When a notch, pin, teeth or hole in a timing wheel (the reluctor) moves past the sensor, it causes a change in the magnetic flux field around the sensor. As the teeth of the reluctor approach the coil assembly, the flux from the magnet is pulled in close to the bar. The sudden field change induces an electrical current in the coil, which is then converted to a voltage signal by electronic circuitry in MegaSquirt-II. As the teeth move away, the flux springs back outward, inducing a voltage in the pickup coil. This induced current has reversed direction as the magnetic field returns to normal.
VR Sensor internal wiring for MS ECU:
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DigiKey part
numbers:
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Farnell
part numbers
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1K resistor = 1.0KQBK-ND |
1K resistor = 509-164 |
Wiring for V3.0 PCB -- Wiring for a V2.2 PCB
A Hall effect sensor is an "active", magnetic field presence sensor. It is based on the Hall effect. The Hall effect is the change of resistance in a semiconductor in a magnetic field. The Hall effect sensor consists of semiconductor material which will conduct current when the material is subject to a magnetic field. These types of sensors require a "flying magnet", wheel. Instead of teeth on the wheel, as in a variable reluctor sensor, you must have small magnet and a shutter wheel.
The Hall effect sensor consists of three parts:
The Hall sensor has electronic circuitry that provides a constant voltage pulse regardless of the speed. The square wave it produces is particularly suitable for use in digital electronic systems. The sensor is also sensitive to the polarity of the magnet. North pole will turn it on, South will not, or vice-versa, depending on the orientation of the sensor. The pulse produced is as long as there is a magnetic field of some strength present, and is always of the same polarity (positive with respect to ground).
There are many advantages to the Hall effect sensor. Since it is an integrated circuit, it can be made very small with a number of features at minimal cost. It exceeds all current automotive temperature specs. Its accuracy is unaffected even when covered in under hood muck. Hall-Effect triggering has been widely used on European vehicles with Bosch electronics since the late 1970s. It has been used in the U.S. as early as 1975. In the 1980s it became more common, mainly on Chrysler imports. Ford was the first domestic manufacturer to embrace the technology with the advent of the TFI (Thick Film Integrated) ignition.
Hall-Effect has become the most popular sensor in recent times as automotive manufactures migrate to Crank Angle Sensors. These typically are placed to read special crank wheels, or the starter gear teeth on the flywheel, providing a high degree of positional accuracy MegaSquirt-II's fuel and ignition computations.
Hall effect crankshaft position sensors typically have three terminals:
The sensor must have voltage and ground to produce a signal, so check these terminals first with an analog voltmeter if you suspect it is not working. Sensor output can be checked by disconnecting the coil and cranking the engine to see if the sensor produces a voltage signal. The voltmeter needle should jump each time a shutter blade passes through the Hall effect switch.
You can use the LED tester to check the signal. it should blink as the distributor is rotated:
On an oscilloscope, you should see a square wave form:
Hall Sensor internal wiring for MS ECU:
Hall or Optical input sensor wiring for V2.2 PCB
When hall sensor output is 5V use:
When hall sensor output is 12V use:
Ignition Input Capture
Setting for Hall Sensors:
All Hall sensors we have tested appear to ground the supply when switching.
We need to know when it switches the supply down to ground, i.e. when it
see's a tooth or when it see's the gap between teeth. To do this, turn the
engine backwards until the edge is well out of the Hall sensor. Measure
the output voltage from the Hall sensor Turn the engine forward until the
edge has passed through the Hall sensor. Measure the output voltage.
If the sensor switches to ground when it sees a tooth and goes high (12 or 5V) when it see's a gap then set the Ignition Input Capture to "Rising Edge"
If the sensor switches to ground when it sees a gap and goes high (12 or 5V) when it see's a tooth then set the Ignition Input Capture to "Falling Edge"
Once the engine is running double check your timing using a strobe. (To fix the angle at say 10deg to make reading it easier set the "Fixed Advance" to Fixed and set the "Timing for Fixed Advance" to 10deg. Change the Fixed Advance to "Use Table" once youve finished!!) If it is out then alter your Trigger Angle untill it is correct.
Second Trigger Input (VR Sensor)
Second VR conditioner Circuit - this needs to be built.
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DigiKey part
numbers:
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Farnell
part numbers
|
|
1K resistor = 1.0KQBK-ND |
1K resistor = 509-164 |
Please note: Above part numbers will need checking, some components will come with a minimum order in multiples of 5 and 10.
Second Trigger Input (Hall Effect Sensor)
Second Hall Sensor Circuit - this needs to be built.
If the sensor switches to ground when it sees a tooth and goes high (12 or 5V) when it see's a gap then set the Second Trigger Active to "Rising"
If the sensor switches to ground when it sees a gap and goes high (12 or 5V) when it see's a tooth then set the Second Trigger Active to "Falling"
Hall sensor input on pin3 of the DB37 connector
on a V3.0 PCB
Hall sensor input on pin25 of the DB37 connector on a V2.2 PCB
Single Coil Output (Distributor Based)
Wiring for a V2.2 -- Wiring for a V3.0 -- MeagTune Settings
To control the coil (single coil driven through the distributor to the correct cylinder) you will need to build the VB921 circuit to your MS ECU. The V3.0 already has a VB921, so it is easy to do, the V2.2 doesnt have one so it is a little harder to do.
Very Important: Set Spark Out - Going
High (Inverted) and set the Dwell to around 6.0mS for cranking 3.5mS
for Running and 0.1mS for the Minimum Time as a starting point! Also
set D14 as the Spark A output pin.
See HERE for MegaTune settings
It is recommended that V2.2 users fit a 15 or 25 pin db connector onto the case of the MS ECU. The reason is that the spare connectors on the V2.2 are not really capable of driving the current required for a coil unless you double them up (e.g. X11 and X12 as the ground X13 and X14 as the source). This is only suitable for a single VB921. Drill a 3mm hole into the case and mount the VB921 securely using the hole. Use heatsink compound between the VB921 and the case.
Very Important: Set Spark
Out - Going High (Inverted) and set the Dwell to around 6.0mS for
cranking 3.5mS for Running and 0.1mS for the Minimum Time as a starting
point! Also set D14 as the Spark A output pin.
See HERE for MegaTune settings
MegaTune Settings for 1 coil (Distributor Based)
If
you have a question, comment, or suggestion for this FAQ please post it on
the forum.
No part of this manual may be reproduced or changed without written permission from James Murray, Ken Culver and Philip Ringwood.