Using MS3X card with MS2 / sequential

[jsmcortina]

Just an idea I thought I'd throw out..

It is possible with some DIY wiring to utilise the MS3X card with an MS2 to simplify the addition of sequential and other inputs and outputs.

Comparing MS3 applications with MS2, the MS3X card gives
8 hi-z injector outputs - can use up to 4
4 buffered logic spark outputs - can use up to 6
6 PWM type outputs - idle / boost / fan / shiftlights etc. (depends on what other MS2 pins you are using)
4 switch inputs - launch, nitrous etc. (depends on what other MS2 pins you are using)
3 ADC inputs - can be used with ADC6/ADC7

Naturally, you cannot use all the features of the card as the MS2 chip does not have enough i/o pins. But, this could save some headache on a 'busy' MS2 install and would then use a standard MS3X loom for connection.

If there's any interest I can draw up a diagram.

James

[racingmini_mtl]

I assume this would require the use of the MS3 case?

Jean

[jsmcortina]

MS3X would work for sure. It was a thought I had and decided I would share. It could perhaps be part of a stepwise upgrade for users. Then later they can add the MS3 card add plug in directly to the MS3X card they already have with a working loom.
James

[racingmini_mtl]

I agree it will work and is an interesting stepwise upgrade. I was just wondering if the taller case is required or if there is a way to use the MS2 case with the MS3X card.

Jean

[jsmcortina]

It is the same deal as with the full MS3 really. You can, somewhat get away with a case that isn't as tall, but you might run into connector hood fouling issues. Using the full MS3 case is likely the simplest option. Making a pair of endplates and spacing the two MS2 case halves apart can work - as shown by my MS3 case mockup.

James

[Vicoor]

I was just looking at the expansion pin header wiring
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/hardware.html#headers

The pinout for the MS3 card is there and I know that the MS3X is reverse to that, but since there has been issues with connecting them backwards and or shifted one pin over that has resulted in damage to the MS3, I think it would be worthwhile to provide the pinout for the header on the MS3X board to eliminate any confusion, if that is ever really possible.

Especially if people are going to be adapting them to be used with MS2.

Just a thought....

[ChevytoyR1]

i actully thought about this when ms3x came out but i wasnt really much into it since i use mostly low z injectors.. but i would be intrested seeing the wiring and would like to have a copy just to have..

and maybe wiring for a v8 wasted spark and semi seq wiring?

[piledriver]

Actually I'd have gone that route if the MS3X had been available at the time (it came out RIGHT afterward, of course)
If the VR circuits lived there it would be a slam dunk. (the one VR/Hall input would have worked for me)

I actually used a MS3 case, an *error board lives up top., and I installed a DB37 in the slot for I/O.
Made another cap for the other end to suit the 1.1 board, but I still have the std MS3 one.

For an LS2 coil setup it would be ~ideal, and might lead to someone figuring out how to get staging working with 4 cyl sequential, since the code doesn't explicitly disallow it.

[racingmini_mtl]

For an LS2 coil setup it would be ~ideal, and might lead to someone figuring out how to get staging working with 4 cyl sequential, since the code doesn't explicitly disallow it.

Actually, if you select staging with 4 drivers and 4 cylinder what you get is semi-sequential with 2 primary and 2 secondary injector channels. If you want full sequential you either go with MS3 or change the code and have some sort of electrical setup to switch on and off the secondaries (but that would make for a rather crude switch over).

Jean

[BenGTT]

Hi James,

You have a good idea for using ms3x with ms2, I am interested !

Ben

[ChevytoyR1]

Hey James ur still going to do this for us?

[jsmcortina]

Yes, just been busy...

James

[ChevytoyR1]

Thanks James...

[Jonpro03]

Also interested

[paulpug]

Hi James

Count me in too

Paul

[paulsprint]

Hi James,
Just found this thread, after our chat on Sunday night I have been looking at this as well and it seam the way to go for me. I would have had to add a board for the extra two injector drivers, fan, shift light and extra ING drivers. It will make it a lot neater inside the case. Would it be possible to use this for the cam pos sensor as well, as per MS3 or do you think I would have to still build an input circuit. my other Idea was, as I only need 4 Injector outputs and two ING and 3 others to mount the MS3x inside the case upside down keeping its DB37 inside. Then make up a plug with flying leads and connect them onto the existing DB37 on the main V3.0 PCB. this would make a nice compact and neat unit with only one fully utilised plug.

I have started to ASM the PCB so will only go so far until I have seen your ideas.

[knightrous]

I would also like to register my interest for this.

[knightrous]

I've had a bit of spare time during my lunch break today to think about this, I've just drafted up an idea or two that I think could help make this work. I haven't done indepth research, or matched all the schematics up electrically to see if there is viable, but I'm sure the powers to be on here will be able to point out where the problems are relatively quick

First idea is a revised MS2 daughter card with the required connectors for the MS3X board

Sorry for the bad photochop, was limited on time
I know it means the hassle of designing a new MS2 card and then producing it, but considering how there are still people buying and using MS1's out there, I don't see the MS2 fading away in any short time period, so this might just be a viable idea. Is also a problem for people who have already got the MS2 board installed, which leads to the next idea.

Second idea is a simple MS2 to MS3X adaptor board that sits between the MS2 daughter board and the MS 2.2/3.0/3.57 PCB.

Another bad photochop...
This would be relatively easy to make, probably a $10-20 board which will only need to be 65x38mm in size, will be a straight drop in part for MS2 (maybe MS1?) users

Now, I've had a quick look at my MS2 and there is plenty of space to fit either idea.


Third idea is for an actual MS2X board, which could be based on the MS3X PCB, but with only half the components populated for the available options within the MS2's I/O limit. With less components required for this re-purposed MS3X board, the cost could be a bit lower.

Anyway, hope this generates some more interest in this thread again

[Hardwyre]

This DIY community always makes me smile.

[Scottie Electrical]

I have been doing this for some time with ms1 and ms2 processor/daughterboards.
It is a much much nicer way to add additional circuits such as vr conditioners.

You just need to make up a ribbon cable with a connector on one end then solder the tails on the other end directly to the v3 board as you would any other expansion board.

Use the larger case such as the one from diyautotune, fill up the usb/sd slots in the front panel with silicone and put the ribbon cables supplied with the ms3x aside should you decide to upgrade to ms3.