Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

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Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:37 pm

I'm looking to install a coil on plug set up on a 16v bigport 4age currently running off of a MegaSquirtPNP Gen2 (MS2/Extra Release 3.2.1).

If possible I'd like to use the OEM distributor for the appropriate crank and cam input signals and the four spark outputs (pins 2-5) on the 15 pin optional connector to trigger the coils. I will use the 1NZFE coils which have a built in igniter and should work well for my application. I'd also prefer to do sequential rather than wasted spark or batch fire.

I was unable to find clear information regarding how to set up a configuration like this in the tuner studio software as well as doing the actual physical wiring and installation. The mega manual had good information but seemed to lack some of the necessary details.

1.Is this set up feasible/is there a better alternative?
2.What are the proper ignition settings in tuner studio for the input signals and spark output?
3.Can i wire the ignition trigger on the coil directly to the appropriate output pin on the megasquirt? (IE pins 2,3,4,5, to cylinders 1,3,4,2 coils respectively)
4.Proper settings and wiring for a 36-1 trigger wheel (if required).

Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Matt Cramer » Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:55 am

We haven't tried to use the stock distributor for coil on plug ourselves, but theoretically setting it for a dual wheel mode with four teeth at cam speed and the secondary trigger active on every rotation of the cam should do it.
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:35 am

Thanks for the response Matt.

I'm currently using the "basic trigger" spark mode under Basic Setup, Tach Input/Ignition Settings. Taking your suggestion I should change this to "toothed wheel."
Skip pulses (3).
Ignition input capture (falling edge or rising edge?)
Spark output (going high or going low?)
Number of coils (coil on plug)
Spark a output pin (JS10)

Under Basic Setup, Trigger Wheel Settings
Trigger wheel arrangement (Dual Wheel)
Trigger Wheel Teeth (4)
Tooth #1 Angle (0.0 or maybe 10 for the 4age?)
Wheel speed (Cam wheel)
Second trigger active on (Rising edge or falling edge)
and every rotation of.. (Cam)

Could you please let me know if those settings are correct and clarify the ones I'm not sure about; the tooth #1 angle, rising vs falling edge, going high vs low, etc. Also if my understanding of the wiring for the coils from the 4 outputs on the 15 pin connector will work and if I have to change anything else to make sure the megasquirt uses those outputs.

This is a big help! Thanks again.
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Matt Cramer » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:11 am

If your firmware is giving JS10 as a spark output pin option, I'd suggest updating to the latest release and make sure you specify it is an MSPNP when loading the firmware.

Leave ignition input capture where it is, and copy the tooth #1 angle from the trigger angle as a starting point (you may need to add 180, 360, or 450 degrees to it).

Determining the active edge may take some trial and error.
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:31 am

Taking your advice I have updated my firmware to 3.4.2, ensuring to specify MSPNP when loading. I have also double checked my sensor calibrations after loading and confirmed all my settings transferred without any issues. The spark A output pin is now set to IGN1 and I will use the other settings you specified in your previous post.

I have read on this forum that some people set the spark output to going high and some to going low while using the same coils I am planning on using. Which one is correct for my configuration?

Currently my cranking dwell is (4.0)
Dwell Type (Standard Dwell)
Nominal Dwell (3.1)
Spark Duration (.07)

Will these settings still be applicable with the COP setup?

I am currently waiting on the coils and additional parts to arrive to do the installation and will update further when i begin.
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Matt Cramer » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:30 am

Virtually all coils with an MSPNP use Going High.
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:28 pm

I have installed and wired the COP setup and am getting ready to try to start the engine. While using the test mode to check the coils, spark outputs 3 and 4 are not working. These are the "WLED" and "ALED" outputs that may be used for additional spark outputs. I read these may need pull up resistors installed to be used for this purpose. Could someone please explain how to do this if it's necessary or what else may be the problem. Outputs A and B work fine. Thanks.
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Matt Cramer » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:01 am

Is this an early MSPNP with the red main board, or a later one with the green board? Adding the pull ups are a bit easier on the green board but can be done in the case on either.
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:11 am

I believe mine has the red board. I purchased the MSPNP new from DIY Auto Tune in November 2012 and it uses the older style 15 pin optional connector.
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Matt Cramer » Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:55 am

In that case, take the MicroSquirt Module off and solder 100 ohm resistors in the empty R62 and R63 slots to get pull ups.
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:45 pm

After installing the resistors all of the spark outputs are now working. Using the composite logger I confirmed that I am receiving cam and crank signals. With the tooth #1 angle at around 10 the car struggles to start, runs very rough, then dies after a few seconds. Is it possible I may need to add 180, 360, etc. to this angle or are there other possible reasons for this condition? All the other ignition settings are as recommended in the previous posts. The idle is currently not stable enough to check the timing.
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Matt Cramer » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:15 am

Try wasted-COP mode; if that works better, add 360 degrees.
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:40 pm

Using the wasted COP mode the engine responded marginally better, still runs rough for a few seconds then dies. This was using 14.5 for the tooth #1 angle (the same trigger angle used when running with the basic trigger setting). Still unable to idle enough to check and adjust timing. Not sure if I should try going to the COP setting and adding the 360 degrees?

Also, noticed that the dash tachometer is not working, maybe due to disconnecting and capping off the previously used coil negative terminal wire. However, Tuner Studio is still able to read and display engine rpm. Is there a way to get the factory tach in the dash to work with this new setup?
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Matt Cramer » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:52 am

See if you can check timing while cranking with the injectors unplugged.
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:36 am

My timing light doesn't seem to work with the engine at cranking speed. I tried adding 360 degrees to the tooth #1 angle in COP mode and the engine didn't want to start at all. Increasing the base tooth #1 angle (without the extra 360) in increments seems to be heading in the right direction. Maybe adding 180 degrees or continuing to increase the angle in increments until I can shoot the timing?
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:32 am

In COP mode with the tooth #1 angle at around 30 I am able to check the timing. The timing light shows 0 degrees BTDC with the fixed timing set to 15 degrees. When I reduce the tooth #1 angle to try to advance the timing to sync it with the megasquirt the engine runs worse, similar to how I have described in previous posts. Any suggestions? Thanks
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Matt Cramer » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:20 am

With the low tooth count, it may work better on a 50 to 60 degree trigger angle, and setting the distributor to match.
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:30 am

I tried setting the #1 tooth angle to 50 and adjusting the timing using the distributor. The same symptoms occur. The engine will idle stable enough to check the timing at 0 degrees BTDC but when I tried to advance the timing by turning the distributor, it ran worse and wouldn't idle. I also confirmed the timing belt is in the correct position. Is there anything else I can try?
Katsu
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Matt Cramer » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:56 am

If you are getting 0 degrees of timing with the fixed angle set to zero, lock down the distributor and then let the ECU control the timing.
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Re: Toyota 4age Coil on Plug Installation

Postby Katsu » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:41 am

I set the fixed timing to 0 and moved the distributor so that the engine timing shown with the timing light was also 0. This was done with a tooth #1 angle of 30 degrees to allow enough adjustment with the distributor.

In "Fixed Timing" the engine seems to have a stable idle but when I switch the FIxed Advance back to "Use Table", to give the ecu full control of the timing, the engine stumbles and won't idle correctly. I've attached a screenshot of my ignition settings in case there's anything I input incorrectly. I'm open to any ideas.

Ignition Options Screenshot.PNG
Katsu
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