MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

All questions about MS2/Microsquirt/Microsquirt module. See also MS2/Extra manuals

Moderators: jsmcortina, muythaibxr

br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

Hi There,

I was hoping you guys could help me straighten this out. A little background. This is a 351W boosted with a 7875 turbo with the proper fuel system to supply the required fuel. I built a MS2 V3 a while back and had trouble with it so I sent it to be repaired by Peter Florence. I managed to get the motor idling nicely on the latest b&g code after Peters repair on a 302W test mule while I built this 351W. I managed to get the 351W built and installed but have had nothing but troubles since. I could not get much help on the B&G forums so I switched over the Extra code. I am still trying to use the basic trigger first as I have a 36-1 wheel installed with the appropriate 3 wire hall sensor, but I was having trouble with my jim stim so I sent it out for repair, but I get a nice RPM signal on my stim so I thought what the hell let me try the basic trigger first. I managed to get a data log and Im seeing some strange tach spikes that look like interference or grounding issues. Please advise lol. If I left any pertinent info out let me know. Attached are my MSQ and log of the event.

Thanks kindly,
Brad Redden
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by rickb794 »

Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

Thanks, but a little more specificity would go a long way here. Megasquirt may not be as easy for everyone as it is for you.....anybody else.

Sincerely,
Brad
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

"AND THE BIGGEST DO of all, is when you post include an MSQ in your post.
And details of your Setup, year and model motor, trigger type and source, ignition output type, idle control, injector type & size (or part #), fuel pressure (measured with a gauge)."

Maybe your referring to this Do?

Basic trigger MSD billet distributor VR sensor jumperd for VR output to JS10.

Not sure on idle control?

Injector fast 85lb/hr High imp. X 4 TBI Fuel pressure at 42.

Brad
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by rickb794 »

Why does battery power drop to 9 volts?

What is causing the sync loss?

Most of the signals are flying willy nilly.

A 15 second log is not enough to make a determination.

You have a grounding or power supply issue?
You are using non-resistor spark plugs?
You are using spiral wound low resistance plug wires? (or bad wires)
You have a bad battery/alternator?

Plugs and wires first.
Then grounding Section 3.2 (all of it) of the fine manual
With the MS unplugged there should be no connection to ground on pins 1,2 & 7?
While you do that you will notice the recommended grounding of the high number pins 15 - 19 go TO THE MOTOR?
Power comes to the MS from the battery (not from the dash harness)?
Noise filter cap on the 12v+ to the coil?
Have you measured the injector resistance?
Wide band powered by the fuel pump relay?


You have a missing tooth wheel, why are you messing with a distributor?
It's just as difficult to sort out a distributor as it is a toothed wheel.
https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tec ... squirt-vr/
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

Hey thanks for your help,

The battery may be bad. Ive had it for a while now so i will look into replacing it.

I think the spark plugs and wires are ok but will check that out.

Injectors are what i said they are.

Quick question....what do you mean the sensors are acting willy nilly?

I have the ms grounded to the head and i am using the relay board so the groundimg should be straight forward per the manuals, but i will recheck them to be sure. I added noise filtering and did not see the same tach spikes as in the earlier log so i will report back after i look into your suggestions.

Thanks again,
Brad
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by rickb794 »

I cannot recommend replacing anything without testing.

Do not replace the battery unless it fails a load test.

If you were using a battery charger while the motor was running that could cause what you are seeing.

DO NOT use a battery charger to start your motor, Start with a fully charged battery or jump from a running vehicle. The buzzing noise from a battery charger may scramble the brains of your MS.
Also tuning or running a motor with low battery voltage is futile because fuel pump speed and battery voltage compensation will confuse the tune.

Willy nilly is noise, all of the signals in the log were primarily noise.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

I will get the battety sorted out thanks.

I was not using a charger while logging the motor while cranking.

I understand that 15 seconds is not a very long log, but i was not actually trying to start the car. I was checking to see if i was getting an rpm with the distributor as I got absolutely no rpm reading with the toothed wheel.

The only sensors that i am currently running are an IAT, TPS, coolant sensor and the map sensor that is installed on the board during assembly. I will go back and look at the log but at least prior to cranking they were reading sensible numbers.

Brad
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by rickb794 »

WHat about adjusting the pots on the VR conditioner circuits?

Then there is polarity and physical gap or a resistor for the sensor.

A tooth log and a composite log will help trouble shoot these areas.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

Hi Rick,

I have not been able to do much with my battery or grounds yet as ive been swamped at work lately, but I was hoping you could walk me through what I'm seeing in the composit log and the tooth log. I am still getting the signal from the VR sensor in the MSD Distributor at this point. Looks like the sensor is reading and outputing properly in the composit log, but im not too sure about the tooth logger. Also in the data log I am not seeing the tach spike I was seeing earlier.

Brad
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by rickb794 »

I misinterpreted the choppy graphs

Looking at the numbers things are not as bad as I originally thought

Are you getting sync? The log shows sync loss but no reason.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

I believe I am getting sync. Looking at the log for some reason it starts with a sync loss of 5, but only shows a sync loss count of six when I stop cranking. I'm a little confused as to why it starts at 5?

Brad
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by rickb794 »

Are you getting spark?
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

I will check that next...currently i was just trying to confirm rpm and vr sensor output.
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by rickb794 »

TS will show sync or not ready in one of the indicators below the gauges.

I see RPM so it would seem you are getting sync.

If plugs are dry give it a shot of spray carb cleaner (fuel) and see if it fires?
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

Thanks yhats a good idea.....do you recommend verifying spark with the test mode?
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by rickb794 »

Only if you have trouble with a basic single coil output.

If you have multiple coils testing would verify ordering.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

Its been a couple of days but im back after trying to get some fire with some starting fluid. I got absolutely no spark and I noticed a tach spike around 23 seconds into the log. Things to note:
1. previous cranking logs were without spark plugs in the motor and I noticed a drop off in cranking RPM so maybe starter/battery need to be replaced.
2. Maybe spark plugs are an issue? Plugs are autolite 764 resistor plugs
3. Cleaned up the grounds with a flap disk and sand paper, but noticed the relays clicking repeatedly on the relax board so maybe I still have ground issues

.......head scratch????
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by rickb794 »

It appears Your ignition capture is not happy.

Something is scrambling it.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
br1070
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:09 am

Re: MS2 V3 Basic Trigger Tach Spike

Post by br1070 »

Would that cause a no spark situation? There was a few secomds before the spike with decent rpm readings where there was still no spark.
Post Reply