Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

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martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by martin2day »

Hello everybody,

my car run very good up to 3500 rpm.
At 4000rpm it feel like it has no power.
In the Log i see that my RPM Signal have got little spikes and the Timing Err% goes some times up to 12%...
Today i drive the car again, but i placed a 10K Ohm inline the VR. It feel a little bit better.
I can spin the engine up to 4500rpm and then the problem begins.

My Problem is i don't understand what's wrong. Because some times i see that the engine goes real lean...
I have also change the Gap from 1 to 1,5mm and use the trimm potties. But i can not go higher with the rpm.

My Hardware: MS2Extra-V3.0 VR Sensor: http://www.fuelairspark.com/media/catal ... eb_1_1.jpg
MSD AL6-2 Ignition Box

Can some one help me please? :-)
2017-05-11_18_modified.msl
2017-05-13_13_modified.msl
2017-05-13_13_modified1.msl
Regards Martin
rickb794
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Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by rickb794 »

It is probably not going lean, it is probably misfiring which will raise the O2 and look lean. Remember the O2 sensor is reading oxygen not fuel.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by rickb794 »

Non-resistor plugs?
Low resistance plug wires?
Have you followed the grounding recommendations in section 3.2 of the fine manual?
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by martin2day »

Hello Rickb794,

i don't read this but i have make it so :-)
My plugs are: Autolite 3923... so i have a Resistor :-)
Yes i think i have LOW resistance plug wires... a good set from MSD.

But there is one point:
I have a AFR composite manifold.
There is no ground connection to the motor block from the throttle body (TBI).

Thank u very much
Regards Martin
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by rickb794 »

The grounding issues are to ground the MS to the motor and to isolate the sensor grounds from the car, they should ground to the MS. This elminates any ground loop issues.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by martin2day »

Hello,

today i drive the car.
I change the gap to 0.5mm and adjust the VR Trimms.
Please visit the files... some times i drives up to 5000rpm, some times it goes lean.
Not good and not what i want. :-(

What do you think. Is it to much timing in this area? I don't think the VE Table is to much wrong to go to AFR 16.
If i am looking to other SBC Table i see that in my problem rpm area it also retard the timing.
http://s268.photobucket.com/user/0rion_ ... 1.jpg.html

What do you think?
One other part i am thinking about.
Please have a look at my timing wheel.
Image
After the tooth there is a small gap. And than it goes to the circle.
I think the VR also see the small gap and this can also be a problem. Or what do you think?

Regards Martin
2017_05_15.zip
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by rickb794 »

Pretty sure that is a MSD wheel and has 4 magnets in an aluminum wheel. The sensor will only see the magnets as the aluminum is non ferrous.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by martin2day »

Hello,

now you are wrong.
Please read the original page:
http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/crank-t ... ancerhtml/

It is a magnetic free wheel.... so i don't understand why it has the small holes?

Regards Martin
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by rickb794 »

Argh! I was on my phone and could not see the details.
If you squint when you look at it they look identical
That wheel has the same problem a MSD wheel has, only 4 teeth, it is missing the other 31.
I think this is done to simplify the aftermarket ECU in regards to the input source.
Making it work for both a distributor or crank trigger with no changes to the ECU.

Sensor gap, sensor wire shielding, proximity to noise sources, finding the right value resistor to put in series with the sensor.

And/Or perhaps try a different VR conditioner circuit.

I think some have monkey'd about with the sensor polarity and leading/trailing settings also to find a happy place.

Is the sensor part of the Fast package, or have you supplied your own?

Interesting that the wheel in the catalog and the wheel you have pictured have different tooth profiles....
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by martin2day »

Hello,

the sensor is part of the package.
Yes i also see that the picture on the Fast Webpage did not have the holes after the tooth.
For my TPI i did not need a 36 tooth wheel... so i install this one.

I think with the hole after the tooth the VR see two tooth.
I rework the wheel and than i think the problem is gone.
I hope so. :-)

I have change the GAP form very small to very large... no effect.

Regards Martin
martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by martin2day »

Hello,

today i reworks the Triggerwheel... now it looks like the one you can see on the fast homepage.
Then i remove 2 degrees of timing from 4000-5000rpm... (the area where the problems are)
I drive the car, but there are some noise. :-(

I attaged the msg and a log and hope someone can give me a hint what i can do.
Thank u so much.

regards Martin
2017_05_17.zip
martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: Timing Err%, fault rpm signal or misfire

Post by martin2day »

Hello,

i have found the problem.
After looking on a ignition table from a LS2 Corvette i found that in the area from 4000-5000rpm the LS2 have a big retard of timing.
So today i retard the timing from 4000-5000rpm and drive the car.
Now i have no problem to go over 5000rpm and the timing err% logs good too.

Here is the clean log and the actual MSQ.
2017_05_18.zip
Thank u
Martin
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