klde v6 not starting and backfiring

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jimmyhotrod
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Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

Hello,

I'm new to megasquirt, iv'e been building a v6 mazda mx5 / miata and so far i'm 3 years into the build.

I have finally reached the stage of starting the engine.

my setup:

microsquirt v3 with latest firmware.

6 x Itb's

6 iwp 042 injectors 14.5 ohm each wired 3 in parrallel on each bank.

bosch 3 channel igniter running wasted spark denso cbr dumb coil on plugs, 14.5 ohm each three pairs in parallel

wled as 3rd ignition channel with pull up resistor between vref and wled.

custom 36-1 crank wheel recommended by megasquirt DXF

tech edge 2j1 wide band controller



I'm getting fuel and spark, but I'm getting pops and bangs on cranking.

when I do a flood clear I get flames out of all 6 throttle bodies.

I have set the base timing and confirmed that I'm seeing the correct advance during cranking.

I have checked that channel b is 120 degrees away from channel A.

engine is an even fire in order 123456

coils are paired 1-4 2-5 3-6

please can you look at my files and see if you can spot something?
LAV1000
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Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by LAV1000 »

[quote="j
getting fuel and spark, but I'm getting pops and bangs on cranking.

when I do a flood clear I get flames out of all 6 throttle bodies.[/quote]

I don't know these engines, but this looks like ignition at the wrong time.
jimmyhotrod
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

LAV1000 wrote:[quote="j
getting fuel and spark, but I'm getting pops and bangs on cranking.

when I do a flood clear I get flames out of all 6 throttle bodies.
I don't know these engines, but this looks like ignition at the wrong time.[/quote]

thanks for the reply, I think you're correct.

however after 3 days trying to get it started on my own, just after posting this I thought i'd try the stock front pulley from a klg4 and with some timing tweaks I got it to fire up and idle, albeit a high idle of 2krpm...

interesting point also, when I use the fuel calculation It seems to be way off, I more than halved it before I got it to run.... any ideas there?

how many squirts per cycle should I have for simultaneous firing on a v6 even fire?
jimmyhotrod
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

I took a log of the engine running now.

could somebody have a look over it and see if there are any nasties?

my iat sensor isn't connected and my map isn't calibrated yet.
jimmyhotrod
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

I should say that I'm running alpha n

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jimmyhotrod
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

Custom crank pulley in aluminium, see the sloping teeth recommended by megasquirt....
On the scales is the stock missing tooth pulley that makes it run, any ideas why my custom trigger wheel didn't work?ImageImage

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grom_e30
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Location: UK

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by grom_e30 »

what type of sensor? most require ferrous metals to work
1990 bmw 320i daily driver with m20b25 ms3 sequential fuel, 380cc injectors, d585 coil near plug, home made cam sync, launch control, fan control, vss, homebrew egt logging what's next????
rickb794
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Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by rickb794 »

Trigger wheel must be ferrous metal?
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
cactus
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 21
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Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by cactus »

Certainly not vehicle specific, but I've never seen any engine with a 123456 firing order as you note in your first post. If you are firing like that, I would think that may cause some trouble?
rickb794
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Location: Portland OR

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by rickb794 »

If it works with one wheel and not the other, that is the clue bus at your stop.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
jimmyhotrod
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

Yes, but using the tooth logger I get a good signal from the custom trigger wheel but it won't run with it! It runs with the stock one.
The custom trigger is waterjet cut from zinc plated mild steel.

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jimmyhotrod
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

cactus wrote:Certainly not vehicle specific, but I've never seen any engine with a 123456 firing order as you note in your first post. If you are firing like that, I would think that may cause some trouble?
This one is 123456

If you look up ford probe or maxda mx6 2.5 v6 kl engine you'll find it.

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theduck
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Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by theduck »

Klde firing order is 123456 and cylinder lay out is

Flywheel
5---6
3---4
1---2
Ford Pinto (Euro 4cyl 2.0l SOHC) with TF035 Turbocharger - Now powered by MS2 V3.0 running MS2/Extra 3.4.2.
cactus
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Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by cactus »

Indeed. I apologize for the derailment.
jimmyhotrod
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

So now my questions are two things:

1. Why didn't the megasquirt trigger wheel work?

2. Why do I need to reduce the required fuel to about half of what tuner studio calculates it as?

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grom_e30
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Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by grom_e30 »

1. can you post tooth logs with both trigger wheels to compare. it the missing tooth in the same place on both wheels?

2, would need to see logs and tune that goes with it.
1990 bmw 320i daily driver with m20b25 ms3 sequential fuel, 380cc injectors, d585 coil near plug, home made cam sync, launch control, fan control, vss, homebrew egt logging what's next????
jimmyhotrod
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

The first log I put was the custom trigger, the second log I put was with the stock trigger. The tooth offset is different on the two by approx 10deg, I will confirm the new position tomorrow evening.

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grom_e30
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Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by grom_e30 »

there was only 1 log posted
1990 bmw 320i daily driver with m20b25 ms3 sequential fuel, 380cc injectors, d585 coil near plug, home made cam sync, launch control, fan control, vss, homebrew egt logging what's next????
jimmyhotrod
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 8:02 am

Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by jimmyhotrod »

Oh, I had attached a log nd the tune but it looks like only the tune was uploaded.

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DaveEFI
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Re: klde v6 not starting and backfiring

Post by DaveEFI »

I generally make up a timing scale or disc and attach to the crank pulley. Only needs to be temporary - printed out at home and glued on. Mark a true mechanical TDC and use a timing light to check your spark is actually happening where you think it is.
Rover SD1 3.5 EFI
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