no spark and "Not RPM Synced" issues

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:08 pm

I recently upgraded from the B&G firmware to the MS Extra (3.4.2) on the advice of a few folks and now the car won't run... I've worked on everything within my realm of knowledge (I'm new to this...) and can't come up with anything.

I'm getting fuel but I don't seem to be getting any spark. I checked the coil and it appears to be good and I think there's no coil output from the ECU. I've attached a log and the msq.

The engine is a Toyota 22R with a GM TBI. I'm pulling the tach signal from the factory V/R in the Toyota distributor. (fuel injected dizzy, no vacuum or mechanical advance...) When I'm cranking I can see the RPM is hovering around 190~200 on the gauge so I guess I'm getting a tach feed, but I still get a "not rpm synced" message. I tried testing the coil from the output test mode (coil directly to a grounded plug...) and got nothing.

I also used the composite logger method to check for crank/cam signals listed in the quick start guide but got nothing so I'm at a loss. Any ideas?

Thanks.

rickb794 · Post by **rickb794** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:07 pm

What port is your ignition output connected to?

Your tune is set for D14, B&G firmware may have used a different output.

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:10 pm

When I built the board with the B&G code I installed the jumper from IGN to IGBTOUT and IGBTIN is jumpered to JS10. ignition comes out on pin 36 (brown wire)

How do I port it to D14 (do I remove the LED?) or can I just change the output to JS10?

I just looked at my feature list showing the I/O pins and I also noticed CAM input is ported to JS10... (if used)

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:18 pm

I found it on the Ignition options menu... I was just going to use JS10 but it says D14 is preferred, what do I need to jumper on the board to get the output to D14?

racingmini_mtl · Post by **racingmini_mtl** » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:02 pm

If you're already wired for JS10, leave it like that and change the output in TunerStudio. That won't be a problem unless you want to go sequential.

Jean

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:03 am

No plans in the future for sequential or a cam input, so I'll just leave it on JS10... thanks.

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:41 pm

So I re-ported the coil output to JS10 and I got a couple of stumbles during cranking and then it immediately died. This went on for a while and it would alternate between stumble/die and nothing at all. I tried adjusting the ASE to see if I could get it to catch after the initial stumble but still got nothing...

I went into the test mode and put the coil directly to a grounded spark plug and got an intermittent/weak spark. I have a fresh battery with good voltage to the coil and the ground and 12 volt + connections are good. I also swapped out the coil for another one and got the same results. When it's in test mode I can hear a ticking but the spark comes and goes.

I read in another thread that someone suggested installing a 330 ohm resistor in the jumper from JS10 to IGBTin but I have not done that, and it ran fine without it when I was running the previous B&G Firmware so I don't think that's the issue.

Is there anything I can check?...

Post by **jsmcortina** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:55 pm

Rubicon_Dave wrote:When it's in test mode I can hear a ticking but the spark comes and goes.

If you can hear a click, but you don't see the spark, it sounds like the spark energy is getting lost somewhere.
Fouled plug? Leaky HT lead? Tracking on coil tower?

James

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:57 pm

did you get any logs of the stumble?

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:14 pm

This is the most recent tune and and log: I don't know if this log caught the stumble or not.

On a side note I was just messing with it and it popped the fuse for the coil... so now I gotta dig into that issue.

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:33 pm

jsmcortina wrote:
Rubicon_Dave wrote:When it's in test mode I can hear a ticking but the spark comes and goes.
If you can hear a click, but you don't see the spark, it sounds like the spark energy is getting lost somewhere.
Fouled plug? Leaky HT lead? Tracking on coil tower?

James

They're brand new plug wires and I also tried two different coils so that would rule out the tracking on the tower... The plugs are only a year old but I guess I could change them out. (When I say only a year old you need to know that this is not a daily driver... this is a four wheeler that gets used about 12~15 times a year.)

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:27 pm

So i think I've blown the BIP373... there is no output in test mode and when I connect the STIM the LED for IGN1 does not light up. There's no visible damage that I can see, and no burnt smell. Is there a test I can perform on the BIP to confirm if it's toast? (either voltage at the pins, or resistance between pins? (...removed from board I would imagine.)

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:48 am

you could test to make sure the bip metal case is insulated from grounding on the heat-sink

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:14 am

The tab is insulated, and I'm reading 100 ohms between the tab and the heat sink with the BIP373 soldered in.

On a side note, I have noticed the dwell is off the charts during cranking (pegs the dwell meter on the dash and turns red) ... could this be putting the BIP373 into protection mode?

racingmini_mtl · Post by **racingmini_mtl** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:48 am

Rubicon_Dave wrote:The tab is insulated, and I'm reading 100 ohms between the tab and the heat sink with the BIP373 soldered in.

100 Ohms? If that's correct there's a problem. You should be reading something like 100 K Ohms.

So if it's a typo and you do see 100k then you're fine. If it's not a typo, you need to correct this because you don't have a functional isolation. That could be due to the wrong type of heat sink compound.

Jean

Rubicon_Dave · Post by **Rubicon_Dave** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:55 am

Yes, 100 ohms, no typo.

I used the heat sink compound that came with the MS2 (provided by DIY Autotune...) everything ran fine up until I updated the firmware and nothing else changed with the engine or wiring. I know Q9 and Q12 are supposed to have roughly 60K ohms isolation but I didn't see anything in the instructions for Q16 (the Bip)

I've already ordered an new coil driver chip so we'll see what happens.

frogcow · Post by **frogcow** » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:01 pm

It sounds like you are moving in the right direction with suspecting the Bip373. If its resistance is low, your coil fuse is popped and getting a weak spark from the coil.

On a side note what was the idea behind the 330ohm resistor in the JS10 ign jumper you read about.

I feel I may be experiencing something similar, I used megamanual assembly manual and also jumper ign to JS10, have no spark from coil and not rpm synched, not hijacking just curious about how you go, I am a novice with this sought of thing but it seems it could be the firmware and assembly school of thoughts might not be interchangeable.

frogcow · Post by **frogcow** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:35 am

Just stumbled across a few things whilst researching.

https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tec ... -ignition/

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/bip373_datasheet.pdf

I just took an ohms reading between my bip373 and the heat sink and measured infinite ohms so yep seems like you have an issue with grounding of the ignition driver.

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:16 am

why don't you lift the driver off the heat sink and re check the resistance. it could be that the mica insulation got damaged or something like that.

rickb794 · Post by **rickb794** » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:30 am

Rubicon_Dave wrote:Yes, 100 ohms, no typo.

I used the heat sink compound that came with the MS2 (provided by DIY Autotune...) everything ran fine up until I updated the firmware

Did you remover the power for the coil & Injectors while you did the update?

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