Going from HEI to DIS no start(SOLVED)TUNE AND LOG INCLUDED

All questions about MS2/Microsquirt/Microsquirt module. See also MS2/Extra manuals

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WillExoIX
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Going from HEI to DIS no start(SOLVED)TUNE AND LOG INCLUDED

Post by WillExoIX »

Will post tune and log in a little bit.

GM 3.4 v6
MS2 running Extra 3.3.3.
I originally built the MS unit for HEI, spark output on d14 and everything per the manual.

I've just wired up the DIS system; I used original wiring added to the DIY harness so it was as simple as matching the wire colors, and I double checked all to make sure it was correct.

I get intermittent rpm synced/not synced. I went with the settings for DIS in the manual and got absolutely no rpm sync. Gm7x results in no sync whatsoever.

With the settings in the first pic I get intermittent sync, tries to start, then kicks back.

If I change to single coil, I get no start, no sync, but syncs when I stop cranking and goes back to no sync.

The only sync I am having issues with is the rpm sync.

So, having originally built the box for HEI8, what are the proper tunerstudio settings for going to DIS?Image

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Last edited by WillExoIX on Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:13 am, edited 4 times in total.
Image
Megasquirt 2 V3.0 Running Msextra 3.4.2. in a 1989 Camaro RS .48AR/60mm Turbo 3.4L/700R4
Boost control, Fan control, Stepper IAC, Launch/Antilag, Working on the GMDIS, and Methanol injection
WillExoIX
Master MS/Extra'er
Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

here is my tune, a tooth and sync log. I will also upload a datalog, but I changed settings multiple times in the datalog so I dont know how helpful itll be.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

and the datalog
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
Master MS/Extra'er
Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

If you want something specific let me know I'll be hawkwatching this thread. Thanks in advance for the help. I know there are a few who have gotten it working. I just want to get it started so I can check the trigger angle with the timing light and make sure everything matches before I go any further. I do know the RPM sync needs to be the first thing to get fixed. So I cant go any further with it until i get regular rpm sync.

Further info, I added awire to pin C on the bigger connector on the ICM to get my stock tach working and that reads RPMs perfectly with no issues, So I assume the rpm sync is due to software settings. Im sure once they are correct I shouldnt have issues.

Before I forget,
Its a 3.4 block from a 95 Camaro, With the block mounted crank sensor, I have twisted the pair myself. The DIS ICM and coils are from a 96 Buick Century 3100.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

Another thing I have tried is making sure I have the correct pinout on the crank sensor plug at the ICM. I have A B and C there, with the yellow on A, and purple on C. I have tried a few jumper wires from an extra connector, yellow still on A, but switched the purple to B instead of C with no difference. Do I need a 3 wire crank sensor here? The pinouts I have looked over say the 2 wire sensor will work.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

Of course the old threads are of little help now that Photobucket is a paid site. All thse pics of peoples settings no longer work or I am sure I would have figured it out on my own. I have done everything myself on the entire car aside from mount and balance the tires. And I mean everything. Its been a few years since I've posted on these forums..
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

After reading through the manuals again im a bit confused. Isnt GM DIS the same as GM 7X? The crankshaft has 6 evenly spaced notches and a 7th 10* before one of the others to denote cylinder position.

Are both of these not the same? DIS is running off the 7X sensor....
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

another log with it almost starting. picks up rpms then drops, picks up then drops.
associated tune file as well.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rickb794
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by rickb794 »

6.8 GM DIS (for reference only)
As far as the ECU is concerned, GMDIS works similarly to HEI7. Even though the module is controlling wasted
spark ignition, the ECU does not receive any cylinder identification or phase information.
The same internal modifications are required as for HEI7 in section 6.4
This wiring need confirming.
P = Positive from VR sensor
N = Negative from VR sensor
G = Ground to Megasquirt Sensor ground
B = Bypass from Megasquirt SPR3
R = Reference (REF) to Megasquirt Tach in.
E = Electronic spark timing (EST) from Megasquirt IGN (36)

These settings need confirming.
Ignition capture = "Falling" (check!)
Spark output = "Going High" (check!)
Spark A output pin = "D14"
Dwell type = "Standard Dwell"
Nominal Dwell = "3.0"
GM/HEI options = "GM bypass"
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

rickb794 wrote:6.8 GM DIS (for reference only)
As far as the ECU is concerned, GMDIS works similarly to HEI7. Even though the module is controlling wasted
spark ignition, the ECU does not receive any cylinder identification or phase information.
The same internal modifications are required as for HEI7 in section 6.4
This wiring need confirming.
P = Positive from VR sensor
N = Negative from VR sensor
G = Ground to Megasquirt Sensor ground
B = Bypass from Megasquirt SPR3
R = Reference (REF) to Megasquirt Tach in.
E = Electronic spark timing (EST) from Megasquirt IGN (36)

These settings need confirming.
Ignition capture = "Falling" (check!)
Spark output = "Going High" (check!)
Spark A output pin = "D14"
Dwell type = "Standard Dwell"
Nominal Dwell = "3.0"
GM/HEI options = "GM bypass"
Tried all that. Those are the settings used in the last lo and tune.
Zero rpm sync.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

If I set Ignition capture to Rising edge I get intermittent RPM sync.
Falling edge gets zero RPM sync at all.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

Upgraded to 3.4.x firmware.
at least now i get partial rpm sync on both settings. it wants to start but wont..

first half of the log is falling edge, after the power cycle is rising edge.

thoughts?
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

gonna play with the pots while I wait for someone to look at the tune and logs.

I appreciate the help, but please dont post what I have already read in the manuals without taking a look at whats going on in the log and tune. I have been through the manuals thousands of times, and built the ECU myself with the corresponding mods for HEI7/8. Also have launch control, boost control, and cooling fan control. Ask questions please don't just copy and paste.

As it sits, whats in the manual is exactly how it is setup right now. need to chase the rpm sync problems down. Ive seen all the other threads, unfortunately 99% of the pics and links no longer work. So I went with whats in the manual.

Only thing i can think of at the moment is the connector at the ICM for the crankshaft position sensor. I have yellow on pin A and purple on pin C. Is this correct? I have seen pinouts having purple on pin B as well. I have tried to jumper purple from C to B and it seemed to not make a difference. Can someone confirm those pin locations for me?
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

no change playing with the pots. I get rpm sync when i first start cranking then it goes away until i stop. but not always the case.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

spark outputs on both d14 and d16. the crank position sensor is wired properly. if i jump purple from pin B to pin C i get almost no rpm sync whatsoever. Can I use the tach output pin for the tach input to the MS instead of the current tach wire? as it sits pin B goes to the MS and pin C goes to the stock tach. can I switch to see if I get better rpm sync?


anyone?
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

D14 flickers when I first try to start. then d15 comes on and stays on only sometimes. IIRC d15 is warmup indicator though.

I think there is enough info here now to at least get me somewhere once the right person sees it.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start.

Post by WillExoIX »

switched spark output to going low. it almost started, and all three LEDs were lit. Spark A led, WU led and Bypass led.
Here is another log and tune.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start. TUNE AND LOG INCLUDED

Post by WillExoIX »

Well I made a jumper harness to switch pins B and C on the larger ICM plug. Doing this resulted in a much lower response of the cluster tach as compared to having pins B and C in their respective positions. Switching them back results in a more responsive cluster tach during cranking, however even the cluster tach is intermittent.

Noise?
Bad ICM?
Bad ground?

Anything in the logs pointing to an issue?
Anyone have a tooth log of the 7X reluctor?
I noticed the tooth log is even intermittent at best.

Should I give a try swapping the 2 wires on the crank sensor?
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
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Posts: 495
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Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start. TUNE AND LOG INCLUDED

Post by WillExoIX »

I would lve to get ahold of the info in this thread but the links are dead and so are the pictures.....
Plus the 2 people who have got this working havent been on the site in years.

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7142
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WillExoIX
Master MS/Extra'er
Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: Going from HEI to DIS no start. TUNE AND LOG INCLUDED

Post by WillExoIX »

Would really like to get this working. Information is sparse at best. I have been reading and researching for the better part of 8 hours and tested numerous setting changes and nothing. It wants to start but wont.
Last edited by WillExoIX on Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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