Please Review my msq and datalog

[Bcsader]

Ok so I had a little time to tinker today much to my neighbors dismay. For whatever reason the idle control valve pulse width was not fluctuating today and I actually had a pretty steady idle unless something disturbed it(e-fan). Now I have a new issue that developed. I have an innovate DLG-1 wideband. I set the voltages listed in the innovate manual for calibration but now my wideband gauge and tuner studio are giving different readings. My gauge was reading around 14 and tuner studio afr gauge is reading around 12. I cant figure out what's causing the difference. I tried redoing the calibration in tuner studio but that didn't fix it. The wideband is grounded under the dash but I ran a ground wire from there to the same place as the stock ecm grounding point. Any ideas? Should I make a new thread?

Thanks

[Blown88GT]

For your MSPNP2 are you using the Options Port for the WB? If, yes, remove the J6 jumper.

21. Oxygen sensor input

If you have replaced one of the NB's, is the J6 jumper set for the left or right O2?

Optional Configurations

Several jumpers are located on the lower, black circuit board inside the MSPNP. These are accessible by removing the top cover and are indicated as depicted below. However, these dictate the platform with which the MSPNP is design for. The only jumper that should be changed, if desired, is J6.


Default settings indicated in red.

Place a jumper between "O2 Sensor" and "J8-29" to connect the right bank OE O2 sensor the MSPNP. Likewise, connect the jumper between "O2 Sensor" and "J8-43" to connect the left bank OE O2 sensor.

[Bcsader]

I am using the options port. I will remove the jumper and see what happens. Thanks bud!

[Blown88GT]

I asked DIY to add this note to the bottom of the web page.

http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/docs/mspnp ... ?isModel=1
At the end of this web page, insert these instructions:

If you are using the Options Port Pin-21 (Oxygen sensor input), remove jumper J6.

They blew off my suggestion. I guess it's too much trouble to add one clarifying sentence.

You can remove the jumper or can simply remove the factory O2 sensors. There is a note to that effect in the main MSPNP manual as the one linked to is simply to cover the basics for a specific model.
Did you still have the stock O2 sensors in place in addition to the wideband?

Matt Cramer
DIYAutoTune Support

[Bcsader]

I had a few minutes to play with the car today and that jumper was precisely the issue. I had left both factory O2 sensors installed in case I decided to go back to the A9L and chip. The way I read the manual I thought it meant if you spliced into the factory harness you had to disconnect them. Anyways hopefully I can get a little drive time in with auto tune and post a log here soon. I appreciate all your help so far I might have given up already without it.

Thanks

[Bcsader]

Here is the current MSQ and a log of a short drive. I have taken a few drives and let veal do some work. the idle is still not steady especially on decel. Towards the end of the log the car stalled as I rolled up to a light. Please review everything and let me know if there are any suggestions to improve on. Would attempting closed loop idle at this point be more harm than good? Would opening the throttle stop a bit more help with the rpms dipping so low on decel?

Thanks
Brian

[Matt Cramer]

I wouldn't use closed loop idle unless you have a stable idle in open loop - it is something you'd want to turn on for changes in loads (headlights, fans, etc). Applying closed loop on top of an already rolling idle is likely to make things worse. At this point, I would try seeing if changes to the spark table can stabilize the idle.

[Bcsader]

I am experimenting with the ignition table. Would this table be worth trying?

[Blown88GT]

All your tables look the same to me. Use the base map table.

[Bcsader]

I have tried the base map and it makes the idle surge even worse. I am basing my timing table off the idle tuning write up by DIYAutotune. They suggest adding timing below the desired idle speed to boost engine speed when it dips. I took it a step further and did two steps below desired idle speed and also removed a couple degrees above desired idle speed. I know the a9l has a similar table to help stabilize idle.

[rickb794]

Don't try to force the motor to idle at a certain AFR number, give it what it wants.

Then adjust the AFR table in the idle cells to reflect the AFR it idles best at.
(So O2 correction does not drive it away from that target)

[Blown88GT]

Your AFR's are low & the Ignition Table is high in the low regions (6 deg too high).
You have a base engine, tables should be close to the base maps.
Did you use the Table Generators for VE1 & AFR1?

Reset base idle the same as you would do for the A9L. IAC only adds air when needed.
1. Warm engine to normal operating temp.
2. Unplug IAC.
3. Set Idle stop screw to desired idle.
4. Reconnect IAC.

[Bcsader]

I have to have additional timing at idle otherwise the E cam has super low vacuum. I don't have anytime today but I will load the base maps and take a log tomorrow. I will also load a tune with TS generated maps for VE and AFR and do a log with them as well. I have already tried both of these setups though and the car would barely run on either one and the surge was amplified to the point of stalling without throttle input.

[Blown88GT]

Simply raise the base idle speed to compensate for the cam. You can trim the base maps, just not too much.

[Bcsader]

Ok Blown88 I had some time today to try some things. I had set the idle afr to 13 based on the manual saying batch fired engines need to idle rich. Your comment reminded me that due to the cam the reading at idle was always lean(probably a false lean reading) So I locked timing and adjusted fuel and found the idle was happiest around a 17 afr so that is what I set it to. For Timing I noticed that from 16 to 20 degrees timing vacuum really didn't increase so I put it down to 16. Now here is where you and I don't see eye to eye. I am using timing to steady the idle which I believe is also how ford did it and that is what I have been experimenting with. I just did a log with the car idleing the best it has since the megasquirt install. The log is with the IAC valve unplugged. Check it out and see what you think. I was actually able to rev the car and allow it to drop back down to idle and it settled back out very quick. I am super happy with the progress right now.

[Blown88GT]

If IAC is unplugged & idle is good, the lower left cells are where they need to be.
Are you idling at 600rpm? You can watch the cell pointer move around the cells in real time.
On the Ignition Table, you could be jumping back & forth between 22 & 18.
The X-axis rpm's should be the same for both tables.
Your transitions are not smooth. Look at the 3D view (not available on unpaid version).
Use the Table Generator (not available on unpaid version) & then modify the lower cells.

[Bcsader]

I am idleing right around 850-900 right now. The 600 bin at 22 degrees is only there in case there is a large dip in rpm. If RPMS dip down to 700 the timing will ramp up towards 22 and bring the RPM back up quickly. The ignition table I am running was generated from a generator I found online for megasquirt. I was also basing it on the e-cam and my heads which should be good for 36 degrees timing. So just to make sure I am understanding what you are saying I should use the table generator for the AFR table and then just plug in my idle afr where it idles at(right around 55 load). Should I redo the VE table using the generator as well and plug in my idle value again. The problem with the generators is I know my peak horsepower and torque from when I had the car dyno tuned but I don't know what the load was when peak torque was achieved at 4200 RPM. I plan and taking the car for a long drive tomorrow and allowing VE AL to start tuning the VE table but making sure to lock the idle cells first. I don't know how to post the images of the tables like you did. It says something about an attack vector when I try to upload them.

[Bcsader]

Here is a new msq with VE and AFR tables made using the generator.

[Blown88GT]

If it idles & runs okay, it is okay. I'd say you're pretty close, just some fine tuning. You can always try closed-loop.
Your AFR is fine, only lean where you're idling, which is okay.
Why the 2 odd cells (5.0) in the upper left of the Ignition?
I made an educated guess on my HP & torque, never been dyno'd. It's just a starting point, not absolute.

You can always try closed-loop & enable Idle Advance Settings.

Enables Idle-advance feature.
Load = Timing varies based on engine load only.
RPMs = Timing varies based on engine RPM only.
Adaptive = Timing changes are used to assist closed-loop idle.

You post images the same way you upload tunes (which don't need to be zipped).
You must getting a false positive from your anti-virus. Are you using Windows 10 with Defender as the A/V?

[Bcsader]

I'm not sure what the deal is with the two 5 degree points that was what the generator I used came up with.