figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

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blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

ok the 65000 rpm warning is gone. i turned off my programable on off outputs and that seemed to fix it. still wount start tho. i have open shorties on this still and i can smell gas, so i know its getting fuel, but maybe to much. can anybody look at my file and see if anything looks bad?

right now im going to look up my coils and check the dwell time on them

then maybe fuel settings?
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

checked to see if the fidle works and it does, i also tested each coil a-d and they all work, as to all the injectors. inj1 is wired to the same bank as cylinder 1 and inj2 is wired to the drivers side bank if it makes a difference. also just looked at the gas can i've been trying to start this on. looks like its kinda dark, started off with 93, so maybe i'll get more... its almost empty anyway

when i crank occasionaly i can hear it catch. like once every couple tries.
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
rickb794
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by rickb794 »

Clean or refresh plugs?

Check timing with light?
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
Laminar
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by Laminar »

Confirm your base timing.

Do you have a datalog of a crank attempt?

It looks like you have a ton of ignition advance at low RPMs. What's the advance when cranking? Should be a straight 10 degrees. Jumping to 27 degrees at 600rpm is maybe kind of big?
ScottRS
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by ScottRS »

Timing related, I'd also suggest to recheck your firing order. Ford has a couple different 302 firing orders, I got the wrong one when I set up my coil pack ignition first go-around and it'd cough here and there but not catch.
Scott's Megasquirt adventure V2.0: It's a Jeep! Sort of. It's just a tube car that pretends to be a Jeep, hiding an MS3ProEvo, Ford 351W, two HX40 turbos, 42lb injectors, the kind of goodies my KOH car wishes it could've had back in the day.
blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

ok so i just noticed that the rpm signal has been hit or miss. before i had like 200ish cranking rpm and now its zero.

so far i've turned the filter on, changed my nicer plug wires for stock ones, re routed the plug wires as far away from the crank pickup as i can, un plugged and cleaned the pickup.

the only thing that helped at all was turning the filter on, and setting the curve. now on occasion i see during cranking a spike of 50-100 rpm for a split second, the rpm synced light goes green, then red... rpm drops to zero, then... the rpm synced light goes green again for a split second when the starter shuts off and the engine slows to zero. i dunno if it's the pickup or not, but i just ordered one from my parts store and theyre getting it from the wearhouse now.

i covered all the basics i believe (checked sensor calibrations, firing order, wiring, grounds, fresh gas, new plugs), and i'm hopeful that this rpm issue is the cause of the no start problem.

i also attached the tune to this post again, in its current configuration with my noise filter set.
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
hybrid
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by hybrid »

You'll need to do a tooth log and attach it here so we can see what the crank trigger looks like.
Do not load someone elses tune and expect it to work for you!
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blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

i dunno if this worked or not... when i crank i see stuff happening but it's blank when im done. let me know how this looks... it looks blank to me?
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

im also getting a message that says empty read, no data received from controller

also i had mentioned that i was going to replace the crank sensor, i did and still the exact same results.

I wish i had seen your reply earlier. I was at work and i checked here but i didn't see ir post. I was able to stop at my shop for a few minutes to get that file i attached but i had to run because my wife yelled at me for not being home yet lol...

*hiding in the bathroom now* let me know what anyone needs, it's so weird that i can see rpm for a split second when i first crand and when it stops. But no other time.
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

i tried to upload this file but it was to big. if i can get back to my shop again i'll do a shorter one, but you can see here on the graph that when i crank i have a spike in RPM for the first part and last part but it doesnt see it any other time. maybe i should swap out the microsquirt for my other one that i havent reflashed for transmission control yet? maybe the shielding is not grounded properly at the computer end? i got a new crank sensor and it's doing the exact same thing so im pretty sure thats ok.
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
hybrid
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by hybrid »

Ok, if that is a 36-1 wheel, it doesn't look great.
You should see 35 similar height bars, then one longer one (the missing tooth).

It should look more like this one:

Image

I haven't counted the bars in this image, but that is generally what it should look like.
Do not load someone elses tune and expect it to work for you!
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blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

off topic for a second here. is it worth it to get the registered tunerstudio extra and loger HD? like is there any options in that, that might help me better?

second, i stopped by my shop and got some more files... reason i asked the first question is im trying to read these and i cant because theyre over 500 lines? not sure what that means but even short bursts of me cranking are to big to open... having said that, here is what i got as of now. i used the sensor ground wire to connect to the shielding on the vr1 cable. o, and the gap between the crank sensor and wheel is (.014" or .356mm) the ford crank sensor is just kinda bolt in place... no adjustment. i was thinking maybe i can elongate the holes and move it closer a couple thousandths?

im really at a loss... like, i feel like i have read through the manual, and tunerstudios manual, and gone over things. i even swapped the microsquirt unit out for a different one in a vane attempt to get somewhere.

this engine ran,... and i could pull codes with the DLC when i had made my own standalone setup using the factory computer and cut down harness. i have to be missing something stupid or obvious and i keep overlooking it. thats probably pretty easy to do considering i can only stop in for a hr or so once a week to tinker with it.
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
ScottRS
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by ScottRS »

I have the OEM Ford crank sensor, wheel, timing cover, that I think you have, and no issues with it picking up and feeding to Microsquirt. I don't know if there is a possible polarity issue with the sensor, I used the OEM Ford plug for the crank position sensor and can unpin and polarity-swap mine, did you keep the plug and can easily try that? I didn't need to, but if it is polarity sensitive, with a 50/50 chance of being right, maybe I got lucky.
I also have my crank sensor shield grounded at the engine end, which I have read is bad, but doing that improved signal stability a little bit. In my case, I have a tube car with pretty much everything grounded, so the risk of bad grounds are limited to just poor connection where the wire hits metal.
Can you try the tooth logger like hybrid noted?
Last edited by ScottRS on Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Scott's Megasquirt adventure V2.0: It's a Jeep! Sort of. It's just a tube car that pretends to be a Jeep, hiding an MS3ProEvo, Ford 351W, two HX40 turbos, 42lb injectors, the kind of goodies my KOH car wishes it could've had back in the day.
Laminar
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by Laminar »

ScottRS wrote:I don't know if there is a possible polarity issue with the sensor, I used the OEM Ford plug for the crank position sensor and can unpin and polarity-swap mine, did you keep the plug and can easily try that?
You could also toggle going high/going low to test this.
blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

Laminar wrote:
ScottRS wrote:I don't know if there is a possible polarity issue with the sensor, I used the OEM Ford plug for the crank position sensor and can unpin and polarity-swap mine, did you keep the plug and can easily try that?
You could also toggle going high/going low to test this.
I will try that, the 3 files i posted are tooth logger files. Also i looked at my EVTM and wired + to + and - to -. The microsquirt vr1 had the + and - heat shrinked on it. The ford ones were labled in the EVTM.

i still think its weird that it spikes for a split second when I first crank and when I get done cranking. Nowhere else tho... it goes between zero rpm and like 170. Tooth logger is all over too.

I do have the factory plug and crank sensor still. Maybe one of the pins is loose or dirty? Maybe they need to be twisted more closer to the plug?
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
hybrid
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by hybrid »

Until you get a tooth log looking like the one I posted, you're going to get nowhere.
If the ECU can't find the missing tooth and count the teeth properly (sync), it will not fire injectors or spark.

You definitely need to play around with your trigger to sort that out. Polarity is definitely the place to start.
Do not load someone elses tune and expect it to work for you!
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blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

What gap do you have on your setup? Between trigger and wheel?
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
hybrid
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by hybrid »

Mine is about 1mm, but mine is a cherry hall sensor, not a VR sensor.
Do not load someone elses tune and expect it to work for you!
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blown5.0tacco
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by blown5.0tacco »

Dam, mine is just about .356mm and I've heard guys using paper on the wheel and installing the sensor up against that paper then pulling the paper out. I bet that's around .160 ish mm. I'm going to try and pull the trigger back out, check the pins, maybe get it a couple thousandths closer. Maybe put the ford one back too.
2001 Tacoma with Supercharged GT40p 5.0 and 4R70W from a 2000 Mountaineer, manual transfercase from 97 f150, oil pan and pickup from a Gran Torino, and a ton of other custom stuff.
ScottRS
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Re: figuring out quadspark on my explorer motor

Post by ScottRS »

Gap on mine is 0.069" or about 1.75mm. Junkyard sensor off the same Explorer I pulled the crank wheel off of. This thread is the first time I've ever thought about the gap beyond "hope it's right, I can't really change it", and definitely the first time I've measured it.
Scott's Megasquirt adventure V2.0: It's a Jeep! Sort of. It's just a tube car that pretends to be a Jeep, hiding an MS3ProEvo, Ford 351W, two HX40 turbos, 42lb injectors, the kind of goodies my KOH car wishes it could've had back in the day.
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