EAE and starting problem

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martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

EAE and starting problem

Post by martin2day »

Hello,

i am using MS2/Extra to run my TBI on an SBC 350.
I am activate the EAE and after understanding the code i set it up so it run great with my TPI.

I only have problems to start my car.
At this time i think the EAE make thinks i don't understand.
I hope someone can help me.

Please the the short log.

I hit the Starter and i see 115rpm. At this time i have 183% EAE1%. So the WallFuel1 goes up very quick.
Why is EAE1% is so high... at this time my map is constant at 96kpa?
Than u şee after 1s the engine run und goes up to 1400rpm.
But as the map falls down the EAE1% also goes down to zero, and so the PW is zero.
After a short time the engine die...

At all other conditions my EAE settings run very good.

Why is EAE1% at starting 183%?
Or what can i doo so the engine starts better?

Thank u very much.

Regards Martin
2017-10-16_16_modified.msl
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Last edited by martin2day on Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: EAE and starting problem

Post by rickb794 »

Why are you using Alpha-N?

It seems it would be necessary if you had a cam bigger than the capabilities of a TPI manifold?
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: EAE and starting problem

Post by martin2day »

Hello Rickb794,

i don't understand how Alpha-N or SD effekt my starting problem with EAE.
Do you think change to SD help my start?

Regards Martin
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: EAE and starting problem

Post by rickb794 »

You answered my question with a question.

It is not common to use Alpha-N over SD.

I have never had a motor fail to start using the default settings.

Have you added supplementary fuel to see if the motor will stay running? Or is it over-fueling?
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: EAE and starting problem

Post by martin2day »

Hello,

okay i understand what you mean.
Today i start the car with the same MSQ but i shut off the AEA.
The car starts very good as you can see.

The answer of your question.
I have a TBI with 4 throttle blades. Two blades in front oben to about 49% TPS. At 49% TPS the rear blades begin to open.
And at 100% TPS all 4 blades are full open.
At all 4 blades are one injector.

I must use staged injection as a table to get a good transition when the rear blades are light open.
So i will use the table at staged injection.
But at SD the table is fuelload... and fuelload is map... but i need TPS.
I have change the code to use SD and the Staged Injection Table in TPS but i will use the original code.

So my only solution is to use Alpha-N.

Back to my problem.
Without EAE activated the car starts very good. With EAE i need 3 to 4 times to get the car run.
What can i do? Why is EAE at the start 183%?

Thank u so much.
Regards Martin
2017-10-17_16_modified.msl
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Last edited by martin2day on Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rickb794
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 6155
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:28 am
Location: Portland OR

Re: EAE and starting problem

Post by rickb794 »

What you are describing sounds like Throttle Body Injection (TBI).
TPI is Tuned Port Injection, port being the intake port of the head with the injector spraying right at the back of the intake valve.

Fuel distribution may be problematic with TBI, wall wetting and wet flow can be difficult to manage.
Airflow is also reduced as the weight of the air is increased.
Also the injectors are twice as big as a port injected V8 so transitioning can be problematic as well as difficulty making small squirts.
I hope you are able to find a solution.
Maybe correctly identifying your setup will help bring answers.
Changing the number of squirts may help but may bring into play issues around injector dead time accuracy.

If you have the opportunity to change to port injection I think it would be worth your while in terms of tune-ability and drive-ability and efficiency due to fuel distribution issues common to TBI.
Also You can use your existing throttle body and modify the manifold for injectors in each port.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: EAE and starting problem

Post by martin2day »

Hello,

you are right. My mistake. My setup is a TBI (Throttle Body Injection) Not Throttle Pody In Injection.
Today my setup runs very good. With EAE on i have no problem. Very flat AFR.

I attached a short LOG so you can see how "clean" it run.
I find a Setup for my TBI so EAE run very cool.

The only problem i have is the start. Where EAE is not right!!!
I will change the rpm_corr of EAE so i have a value about 100rpm and make this very low. 10% or so. Hope this help.

Martin
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martin2day
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:56 am

Re: EAE and starting problem

Post by martin2day »

Hello,

i find a solution.
I set rpm-correction ATW and SFW to 25% so Wallfuel come up very slow.
Please see the LOG.

Regards Martin
2017-10-18_17_modified.msl
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haklis
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:47 am

Re: EAE and starting problem

Post by haklis »

I have this excact problem and was thinking of your approach as a solution, but did a search here to look for other solutions. Did not find any so I will try your solution.
Hakon
Megasquirt project car: Escort mk2 Mexico replica with 2litre Zetec on GSXR ITB's. Sequential injection and spark . MS3 with ms3x.
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