Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

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Drew442
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by Drew442 »

5.0Thunder wrote:
Drew442 wrote:1998-2002 Ford Falcon from Australia has the VR mounted to the timing cover, 36-1 wheel on the balancer, two 4 post coil packs and cam angle sensor with oil pump drive.

Everything you you need for sequential injection and wasted spark and all with factory parts.



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Nice, is water pump rotation counterclockwise?
Yeah. It has a smooth pulley, not ribbed.

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5.0Thunder
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by 5.0Thunder »

Drew442 wrote:
5.0Thunder wrote:
Drew442 wrote:1998-2002 Ford Falcon from Australia has the VR mounted to the timing cover, 36-1 wheel on the balancer, two 4 post coil packs and cam angle sensor with oil pump drive.

Everything you you need for sequential injection and wasted spark and all with factory parts.



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Nice, is water pump rotation counterclockwise?
Yeah. It has a smooth pulley, not ribbed.

Sent from my MI 5 using Tapatalk
dang i need this.
1990 Mustang: MS3Pro Gen 1, 306ci, 72mm turbo, 80lb inj, 36-1 + Cam Sync + D585 coils, World heads, TFS1 cam, GT40 intake, auto, Speed Density
1987 Mustang: MS2v3.57, direct coil control, MSD VR Dizzy, SBE, Weiand 174,190cc heads, F303 cam, TBI w/ (4) 160lb inj, GT500 MAF
Laminar
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by Laminar »

5.0Thunder wrote:dang i need this.
In case you missed my post, it's literally the exact same setup as the 5.0 Explorer: 2x 4 post EDIS coils, a cam sensor/oil pump drive in place of the distributor, and a 36-1 toothed wheel with a VR cam sensor.
Blown88GT
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by Blown88GT »

5.0Thunder wrote:...dang i need this.
I see them on eBay.
1996-2001 ford explorer 5.0
Engine Harmonic Balancer Dorman 594-155
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Engine-Har ... pd&vxp=mtr

This might be the timing chain cover.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-FORD-MUSTA ... ~7&vxp=mtr
1988 Mustang GT, 59k miles, Orig Owner
ProCharger 600B I/C, 12psi, FRP Hdrs, Flwmstr F2, 3G Alt, Contour Fan & DCC, 3.55's, Prog Sprg, Subfms, UCA, LCA, FCA, Tokico 5's, Bridgestone RE-71R 245/40R17, Crane HI-6, Kirban FPR, MS2, DIYPNPF60, Spartan 2, C&L76mm blo-thru MAF, 47lb FRP-LU47
hybrid
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by hybrid »

The timing cover should look like this one:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-WINDSOR ... SwEK9T9usE

Notice the square part on the left. The sensor fits in there.
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Blown88GT
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by Blown88GT »

hybrid wrote:The timing cover should look like this one:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-WINDSOR ... SwEK9T9usE

Notice the square part on the left. The sensor fits in there.
I know, can't find them in the US. Most pics show the back, not the front.
This looks like one here, but the square part is on the right: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-SB-289-30 ... lt&vxp=mtr
1988 Mustang GT, 59k miles, Orig Owner
ProCharger 600B I/C, 12psi, FRP Hdrs, Flwmstr F2, 3G Alt, Contour Fan & DCC, 3.55's, Prog Sprg, Subfms, UCA, LCA, FCA, Tokico 5's, Bridgestone RE-71R 245/40R17, Crane HI-6, Kirban FPR, MS2, DIYPNPF60, Spartan 2, C&L76mm blo-thru MAF, 47lb FRP-LU47
hybrid
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by hybrid »

Same one. Sorry, I meant on the left when you're facing the engine.
Do not load someone elses tune and expect it to work for you!
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rickb794
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by rickb794 »

hybrid wrote:The timing cover should look like this one:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FORD-WINDSOR ... SwEK9T9usE

Notice the square part on the left. The sensor fits in there.
FIY That cover is for clockwise rotating W/P
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Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
rickb794
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by rickb794 »

Blown88GT wrote:
5.0Thunder wrote:...dang i need this.
I see them on eBay.
1996-2001 ford explorer 5.0
Engine Harmonic Balancer Dorman 594-155
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Engine-Har ... pd&vxp=mtr

This might be the timing chain cover.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-FORD-MUSTA ... ~7&vxp=mtr
I would do some investigation on that cover before buying.
Description states reverse cooling not reverse rotation and pump mount appears unique.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
hybrid
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by hybrid »

Using one on my Windsor. Regular rotation pump.
Not using the sensor mount though.

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5.0Thunder
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by 5.0Thunder »

all of this stuff still changes pulley spacing for a mustang 5.0 though, which affects my junk. Trying to get some buddies with a mill to come up with a sandwiched trigger wheel for us on the cheap.
1990 Mustang: MS3Pro Gen 1, 306ci, 72mm turbo, 80lb inj, 36-1 + Cam Sync + D585 coils, World heads, TFS1 cam, GT40 intake, auto, Speed Density
1987 Mustang: MS2v3.57, direct coil control, MSD VR Dizzy, SBE, Weiand 174,190cc heads, F303 cam, TBI w/ (4) 160lb inj, GT500 MAF
5.0Thunder
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by 5.0Thunder »

or getting one of these milled with the larger hole and correct 4-hole pattern for sandwiching between our balancer and pulley.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-NEW-Ford-C ... Ciid%253A1

it looks to be about 1/16" thick so misalignment would be minimal/negligible or at least easily resolved with some 1/16 washers/shims.
1990 Mustang: MS3Pro Gen 1, 306ci, 72mm turbo, 80lb inj, 36-1 + Cam Sync + D585 coils, World heads, TFS1 cam, GT40 intake, auto, Speed Density
1987 Mustang: MS2v3.57, direct coil control, MSD VR Dizzy, SBE, Weiand 174,190cc heads, F303 cam, TBI w/ (4) 160lb inj, GT500 MAF
rickb794
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by rickb794 »

Or include a pulley to replace the OEM pulley with the spacing reduced by the thickness of the trigger wheel.

Or making a larger diameter wheel that attaches to the back of the OEM pulley in a way that does not affect belt spacing.

Altering the spacing on all the accy's may be a lot more work than just altering the one on the crank.

In my eyes it is best to have the trigger wheel behind the balancer so it can't get caught up in any belt related carnage.
Maybe this is not a real issue to be concerned about especially if one wants compatibility with an aftermarket balancer (Fluidampr, etc).
With the wheel farther from the front of the motor a more rigid (triangulated) sensor mount will be needed as well.
Correctly identify your MS ecu here
Read the Do's and Don'ts to avoid the common pitfalls before starting your install or asking for help
Use only these manuals other manuals may cause brain damage or worse.
Blown88GT
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by Blown88GT »

5.0Thunder:
We have strayed off topic.
So, what's going on with the misfire? Figure it out before moving on to something else, which may not cure it.
1988 Mustang GT, 59k miles, Orig Owner
ProCharger 600B I/C, 12psi, FRP Hdrs, Flwmstr F2, 3G Alt, Contour Fan & DCC, 3.55's, Prog Sprg, Subfms, UCA, LCA, FCA, Tokico 5's, Bridgestone RE-71R 245/40R17, Crane HI-6, Kirban FPR, MS2, DIYPNPF60, Spartan 2, C&L76mm blo-thru MAF, 47lb FRP-LU47
5.0Thunder
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by 5.0Thunder »

Blown88GT wrote:5.0Thunder:
We have strayed off topic.
So, what's going on with the misfire? Figure it out before moving on to something else, which may not cure it.
Good call. started with a cold compression test (at 85deg ambient). 150-150-148-150-150-148-150-150. Pretty happy with these results. Since I run e85, almost all my plugs looked brand new, with the exception of #4 which appeared to be burning oil. The piston looked "wetter" than the rest using my bore camera too. the turbine housing also has oil on the outlet so although I have a few more checks to make, I'm leaning toward 2 possible causes.

1) Turbocharger seals leaking oil into the hot side runners down into the cylinder through the exhaust valve. I feel like this is less likely but possible if the oil is pressurized at 50+psi and flowing enough.

2) intake manifold gasket leaking oil into the runner. Seems more likely to cause a misfire and not entirely uncommon for a SBF. I'm going to use my bore-camera to check out the gaskets from the runner side and valley side, then try to pressurize that runner with the intake valve closed to see if it leaks pressure. Should definitely determine if it's leaking or not.
1990 Mustang: MS3Pro Gen 1, 306ci, 72mm turbo, 80lb inj, 36-1 + Cam Sync + D585 coils, World heads, TFS1 cam, GT40 intake, auto, Speed Density
1987 Mustang: MS2v3.57, direct coil control, MSD VR Dizzy, SBE, Weiand 174,190cc heads, F303 cam, TBI w/ (4) 160lb inj, GT500 MAF
Suprazz
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by Suprazz »

Regarding the trigger setup, you can take a look at this: Reusing the factory distributor to make a 24-1 trigger wheel.
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5.0Thunder
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by 5.0Thunder »

That's kind of no different from using a TFI distributor for sequential like what the factory did. The problem with this is timing chain slop.
1990 Mustang: MS3Pro Gen 1, 306ci, 72mm turbo, 80lb inj, 36-1 + Cam Sync + D585 coils, World heads, TFS1 cam, GT40 intake, auto, Speed Density
1987 Mustang: MS2v3.57, direct coil control, MSD VR Dizzy, SBE, Weiand 174,190cc heads, F303 cam, TBI w/ (4) 160lb inj, GT500 MAF
Suprazz
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by Suprazz »

it is different if you want to get rid of the Ford TFI module.

With this trigger wheel, you can run coils on plug instead of the distributor.

But yes, the timing chain slop is still present.
Best looking and most advanced CAN-bus gauge
Toyota Supra 7MGE, 7M-GTE and 1JZ-GTE Plug and play ECUs: http://www.perfecttuning.net
Serial to Bluetooth or Serial to WiFi
DIYAutotune Canadian, EFI Source and ECUMaster reseller!
5.0Thunder
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by 5.0Thunder »

Just bringing this back up.

The car sat for a short while, fired up, then drove great, without misfire. Being that the compression is great and misfire intermittent, I think this is still ignition related.

I may try the TFI bypass deal shown by Twisted Metal in this thread (his last post)

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45375

I really wanted to solve the current problem before throwing money and parts at it so this is the reason for the Twisted Metal's TFI bypass. It may not be a TFI module issue at all. It may lie in the hall sensor within the dizzy or maybe even the wiring. if the issue pops back up with this mod, I can at least rule the TFI out, as far as I know.

Is this correct logic, based on your knowledge of the TFI system?
1990 Mustang: MS3Pro Gen 1, 306ci, 72mm turbo, 80lb inj, 36-1 + Cam Sync + D585 coils, World heads, TFS1 cam, GT40 intake, auto, Speed Density
1987 Mustang: MS2v3.57, direct coil control, MSD VR Dizzy, SBE, Weiand 174,190cc heads, F303 cam, TBI w/ (4) 160lb inj, GT500 MAF
Blown88GT
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Re: Fox Mustang: I want to bypass TFI module.

Post by Blown88GT »

Modifying the TFI circuit is problematical, at best. It boils down to 2 choices.
Use the distributor as Ford supplied it.
OR
Get rid of it completely & go to a toothed wheel.

If you go with the former, you can use a CD ignition box if you connect it as if there was no Megasquirt. There are other ways to connect it, but successes don't seem to outweigh the failures.

Since I no room at all for a toothed wheel, I will always use a distributor/TFI. I have no problems with it, works fine for me as does the Crane HI-6 box & Crane coil.

My current tune is better than ever, starts & fires just like it did the day I bought the car new. Little tweaks in the tune can make a huge difference.
1988 Mustang GT, 59k miles, Orig Owner
ProCharger 600B I/C, 12psi, FRP Hdrs, Flwmstr F2, 3G Alt, Contour Fan & DCC, 3.55's, Prog Sprg, Subfms, UCA, LCA, FCA, Tokico 5's, Bridgestone RE-71R 245/40R17, Crane HI-6, Kirban FPR, MS2, DIYPNPF60, Spartan 2, C&L76mm blo-thru MAF, 47lb FRP-LU47
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