MSii V3.0 w/ EDIS No start, starter kickback

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Matches
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MSii V3.0 w/ EDIS No start, starter kickback

Post by Matches »

Hello all,

Just finished building my Megasquirt II V3.0. Powers up and communicates with the TunerStudio 3.0.28 no problems. Loaded V2.92 firmware. TunerStudio reads baro and temp accurately. Getting tach signal. Fuel pump firing.

The problem is no start and starter kickback. The problem feels like ignition is way off from correct timing. TunerStudio shows 13 degrees while cranking.

Some backstory, not sure what's relevant:

7M-GTE engine from a 1988 Toyota Supra Turbo, stock injectors and coilpacks. EDIS ignition module. Coilpacks are wired A to 1. B to 2. C to 3.

I bought this engine and a Megasquirt I V2.2 used. Previous owner had it running for years, no problems. Swapped the engine in, got the Megasquirt with relay board running and had fun driving around for a few days. Just as I was making some progress with tune, the engine abruptly stopped running. Everything had power, no blown fuses, no melted wires, TunerStudio was still getting sensor and tach inputs. Tried swapping EDIS units, tried swapping coil packs. But the engine was cranking and kicking back, not starting just like it is now. With the old setup I had verified base ignition timing with EDIS signal unplugged at 10 BTDC, and set the Trigger Wizzard according to the DIY Autotune guide. I was so perplexed, I even verified mechanical timing to ensure nothing exotic like skipped teeth on the timing belt had happened. All checked out.

I went over every single thing I could think of trying to troubleshoot the old setup. Eventually I decided it would be fun to build a newer, better-documented, MSII V3.0 and scrap the relay board for cleaner under-hood wiring. Which brings us to today and the intro to my problem.

I am at a loss for where to look now! If anyone can help by suggesting things to check and verify, I would be much obliged. If I did it correctly, my MSQ and a start attempt datalog are attached.

Thank you!
Attachments
2017-11-26_14.42.27.msl
(102.93 KiB) Downloaded 20 times
Matches
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:41 am

Re: MSii V3.0 w/ EDIS No start, starter kickback

Post by Matches »

Updates:

I am now running the current firmware. Not sure how I missed that before.

Also, I re-read the EDIS section of the manual and realized that my coils needed to be wired ACB and not ABC like I had it. (EDIT, that is not correct. ABC is the correct wiring)

Hopefully today or tomorrow I can test the new Msq and coil wiring.
Last edited by Matches on Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Matches
MS/Extra Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:41 am

Re: MSii V3.0 w/ EDIS No start, starter kickback

Post by Matches »

Ok so used TunerStudio to check things per the setup manual.

Injectors OK
Used a flasher to test ignition, all coils firing
Composite logger looks like the example in the manual
Tooth logger looks awful.

Did I use junky wires? Very small gauge shielded audio cable

Maybe someone can have a look and offer advise

Thank you!
Attachments
2017-12-02_16.06.55.csv
Tooth log
(24.01 KiB) Downloaded 23 times
2017-12-02_16.12.19.msq
msq
(119.12 KiB) Downloaded 19 times
jsmcortina
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Re: MSii V3.0 w/ EDIS No start, starter kickback

Post by jsmcortina »

Sounds like your timing is way off.
As you are running EDIS, first off, unplug the Megasquirt ECU. The EDIS module will run on its own at 10BTDC timing with no ECU.

Mark up your crank damper with markers for each cylinder pair. e.g. stick on some white tape and write "1" on it for cyl#1 TDC. Then 120deg later for the next cylinder to fire, then 120 deg later for the next.

Now check your timing with a strobe on each cylinder while cranking.

Don't reconnect the ECU until your timing is correct for each cylinder.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
Matches
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Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:41 am

Re: MSii V3.0 w/ EDIS No start, starter kickback

Post by Matches »

Thank you for the advice. Grabbed a friend and checked cranking timing, WAY off.

VR sensor is 12 teeth from TDC, not 6 like the manual says.

Ok so I need to fix the VR mount location, but what I truly don't understand is how I was able to verify 10 degrees BTDC while running MS1 !?!?
Matches
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Re: MSii V3.0 w/ EDIS No start, starter kickback

Post by Matches »

I take the previous back, I had confused the missing tooth with TDC. With the crank pulley at TDC, the missing tooth is exactly 6 teeth counter clockwise. So that's good!

When I pulled the sensor bracket out, I discovered that the toothed wheel had made contact with the VR sensor, and completely mulched the magnet. Thus, the bizarre tooth logger readings.

To be continued next week with the installation of a new sensor...
DaveEFI
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Re: MSii V3.0 w/ EDIS No start, starter kickback

Post by DaveEFI »

Check the gap at several points on the trigger wheel. A slight variation in gap won't matter. Make the average 1mm. Between 0.5-1.5mm is fine.
Rover SD1 3.5 EFI
MS2 V3
EDIS
Tech Edge O2
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Matches
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Re: MSii V3.0 w/ EDIS No start, starter kickback

Post by Matches »

Got it!

It was the VR sensor after all. So probably could have stuck with the old V2.2, but I had fun building the V3.0 board and now my under hood wiring is much cleaner and better than before. Overall a worth while endeavor.

Thanks for the help and suggestions. I'll post a success story and intro soon
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