1972 Cutlass, 362cid Olds V8

General talk about successes. See older information on MSRUNS forum.

1972 Cutlass, 362cid Olds V8

Postby Rick Finsta » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:56 am

Gentlemen - I'm not sure if this qualifies as a success story so far, as it's still a work in progress, but I thought I'd share anyways. I'll continue to update as I need to. I originally started this build because my 362cid Olds likes to eat racing fuel, and I wanted to switch to E85 (I pay for it in my taxes, might as well reap the benefits). The car runs 11.80s at 112-115mph in the 1/4 mile, so it was a good solid combination with the carburetor, and had great street manners, but since I was going to have to update fuel system and carb anyways, I thought I'd try out the MS (this is to learn more about it so when I build my turbo'd small block Olds with a MS3+3X I'm already on the learning curve).

Unit is a MS1 running MSnS code (will be fuel only at first, though), with a 36-1 trigger wheel, and direct coil control of my HEI coil (EDIS 8 later). Engine is a 500hp 11.5:1 4.125x3.385 BxS Olds 350 with ported factory iron heads and no frills. Cam is a Lunati 418A1LUN solid flat tappet, and carburetor has been a ProSystems custom 820CFM Holley 4150. I'm using a dual plane manifold on this, as this engine did NOT like a single plane on the dyno. I'm doing most of the modifications myself. As this is 40 year old wiring, I decided to rewire the whole car; in the past I've upgraded component sections, but never pulled it all out and started over. What a mess. I'm about 90% done with the main system (still have to finish the engine harness and some gauges and such), and I'll test it before wrapping everything up and calling it done. Then on to the EFI, which you can see is already tested and ready to rock on the firewall.
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Here's some pictures of the intake progress. First pic is the jig I built to grind step drills. It's really simple with the x-y table and depth stop. I have to manually make the back cuts, but I've had great success both with the 14mm stepped bit I made for the rails, as well as the 3/8" non-cutting pilot to 3/4" bit I used for the bung holes (lulz). Second picture is the intake on my bench with the injector hole locating jig in place after cutting the larger holes and test fitting the bungs for binding. I simply used angle iron and 3/8" ID tubing (using the rails as templates) and then positioned everything and drilled the 3/8" pilot holes. So far so good.
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Here's the highly technical high-dollar setup I had fabricated to hold the bungs in place while I epoxied them. I had to start over on one side when I accidentally got some epoxy on an injector body (uuugh, I need junk units for this stuff!) but everything turned out great. I had to use the kitchen counter because it's the only perfectly level surface I could find in the house or garage, and I used a level to make sure the bungs were even front-to-back and bank-to-bank. The high-speed-low-drag tactical adhesive strip is holding the injectors vertical. ;)
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Lastly, here's the product so far. I still need to make hold-down brackets (I'm playing with some design ideas, but I'm thinking I'll hold it down with straps coming up from the manifold-to-head bolts), but I've got the harnesses done. I wired it up so with a simple 4 to 1 weatherpack adapter I can switch from bank-to-bank at first to sequential later on. I'm going to use a dedicated weatherpack bulkhead for the EFI side of things, so I will literally be able to pull some connectors apart and throw a carb on it later on if I so desire.
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To be continued...
Rick Finsta
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Re: 1972 Cutlass, 362cid Olds V8

Postby GregG » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:52 am

It's looking great!

What epoxy did you use to attach the bungs to the manifold?
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Re: 1972 Cutlass, 362cid Olds V8

Postby Rick Finsta » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:23 pm

I just used JB Weld (not JB Quik, but I'm not sure what the difference is, really). There are other products out there that are used often in heads and intakes for porting and modifications, but I've not heard of people having many problems with JB Weld, and it's readily available, so...

I was originally going to use a specialized aluminium brazing rod (Durafix) with which I've had great luck, but I had no way of holding the bungs in place and even without either the injectors in place or a fancy jig. Honestly, I got a little anxious and decided to go the quicker route.
Rick Finsta
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Re: 1972 Cutlass, 362cid Olds V8

Postby Rick Finsta » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:04 am

More pics soon; I got the MS ECU fired up on battery power yesterday with everything attached and she's communicating with my laptop and all the sensors seem to be reading right so far (need to get EasyTherm to calibrate the CLT, IAT is dead on). Still a few odds and ends for the wiring, and then the fuel line and a few hose ands and fitting are all that's left before attempting to fire her up! :yeah!:

Pictures...

Motor Plate and sensor mounting:
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IAT mounted in the cowl. I took an old aluminum fitting (Earl's or something) and cut it so that I could sandwich the inner cowl panel between the sensor and a rubber spacer. Since the air will be coming from this area, I figured it was a better choice than under the bumper.
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And the "big picture" of the front end with the wiring harness installed, sans injectors, rails, and injector harnesses). I'm going to be bundling and covering it all over the next few days.
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Rick Finsta
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Re: 1972 Cutlass, 362cid Olds V8

Postby Rick Finsta » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:16 pm

Got her running today; I've had issues with my spark trigger, so I'm running fuel only until I get the idle tuned and such. :yeah!:

I am going to drop the idle valve, too, because even with the throttle all the way closed, it is idling at about 1100rpm. Idles at 60kPa, too, so the Ford valve is right out. She was pig rich and stumbling, so I dropped the req_fuel down a bunch and she smoothed right out.

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Rick Finsta
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Re: 1972 Cutlass, 362cid Olds V8

Postby Rick Finsta » Fri Oct 24, 2014 8:58 am

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A quick update since i got back at this project this year. A missing secondary coil ground on my HEI kept me from successfully running Fuel and Spark with the MS1, and after chasing down every possibly noise source and eliminating them one by one I ended up dropping in a MS2 board and got it figured out using the output test functions in Tuner Studio. Basically, every time the ignition coil would fire it was dumping energy through the MS ground plane instead of to the engine directly through the distributor. It kept frying the firmware and killing comms and I chased that issue for a LONG time. That said, I forgot how amazing this engine sounds at 6500rpm, and it really does drive well - I've got it running at least as well as it was carbureted though the fuel consumption won't come down until I get more part throttle cruise tuning done. I now have a solid base map and AE tune, running PWM fuel pump control and Flex Fuel and tuning on a Tablet over Bluetooth (with the $7 adapter) just in time to put it away for the winter. My wife would kill me if she read this, but I think I might upgrade to MS3 over the winter even if I remain running bank to bank for now. Either that or I'll probably add CANbus support and build a IOx outboard box so I can start getting ready to do more hardcore datalogging at the race track next year.

The cold start tuning has been going pretty well; I'm getting used to just listening to the car to see what she wants and recognizing the patterns better and better. The more I understand about EFI the more I love MS. Big thanks to everyone here on the board and to the gents at DIY Autotune for all the parts and support. Fuelab has been awesome for tech support (as has Jean - buy his stuff at jbperf.com!) and one of the engineers at Pertronix took a lot of time looking at my setup to determine coil needs and dwell settings.

I hope to get on the chassis dyno sometime over the next few months and get a lot of steady state VE and spark tuning done. I'll update at that time.
Rick Finsta
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