RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

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winstonusmc
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RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

I have been working on my MS3 for a little while now and have been trying to get the stock CAS to work, but I think it is a lost cause at this point. Currently I have a Skyline with an RB26DETT (not a GTR). It runs 700cc inj and Nismo turbines. Normally, it runs on a rom tuned stock ECU. I am working with the Megasquirt on this engine first because its my daily driver and I know it runs good.
I built a patch harness using a HKS patch harness. Currently It is wired up to use either speed density using the stock MAT sensor and either MAFS. I just drove it around a little tonight to get the fueling on the speed density close. The timing is off so I need a driver so I can back off the timing while someone else drives. It pings a bit in the high load, low rpm area, somewhere the stock ECU adjusts timing due to knock. I think I am close......but I cant go over 3500~4000 due to the Hitachi CAS. The CAS in the pic is the R33 Hitachi CAS, but the R34 plastic version is currently installed. Here are some pics:

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There is a new trigger disk on order from DIY autotune to put in a spare CAS, but the mail is slow and I havent gotten it yet. When I am satisfied on the tuning with my car, the Megasquirt will get installed in this engine:

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Here is my current fuel table, obviously without any tuning above 3500rpm. All of it was done with VE analyze live.

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Last edited by winstonusmc on Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:45 am

Re: RB26 Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

Much better tune in the car, still cant rev over 3500~4000. :( I have been driving it for a little over a week now with the MS in it. I split the VE map as I am used to the way the factory ECU does the A/F correction. I have the origional VE map as Fuel VE Table 1 and a second A/F correction map on Fuel VE Table 2 to enrich the AFR for boost and higher load. I find it easier to change the AFR in the correction table when I want it richer or leaner in an area and the VE map will let me know if the VE has actually change due to mods or temps. I find this easier for me, mods (table 1) tuning (table 2).

One thing that is bothering me is with idle. The MAP seems to be dancing about +/- 3kPa. I think it is causing a slight miss, well it sounds like a miss, it hunts a little. I dont know if its because of the on board MAP or the placement of the Vac line. The RB26 has ITBs. It runs a Vac chamber under the intake that I should use for the MAP, but I got a little lazy and have it on the back of the Vac rail that runs along the top of the ITBs. This is normally where the factory boost guage goes.
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
Experienced MS/Extra'er
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Re: RB26 Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

Before I forget. Here is the tune in progress. Only half done on the VE table due to the lack of the rev range :cry:
MultiMAP.msq
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 204
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Re: RB26 Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

Today was great success with the Megasquirt3. I changed my Skyline back to the stock ECU and focused my efforts on the RB25/6 on our drift car. It is running the older Mitsubishi CAS now. It started with a little effort and now seems to sync above 4000rpm. I didnt take it much higher due to no exhaust on the car and it was night as you can see in the vid. Ther isnt any coolant in it and I dont have the wideband in it yet. It did get up to about 4500rpm before it bogged due to the fuel map over richening it.

http://youtu.be/PWsbfE5NWTw
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
Experienced MS/Extra'er
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

http://youtu.be/iHIEs4vzcSE

Second start with the correct "inverted" setting
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

Been idle tuning on the RB25NA motor. Free revs up well beyond 6k. Sounds cool with the ITB setup. Havent been able to drive it too much due to the car not being registered. Its getting towed to the track next week for some in depth tuning. Going to run with ITB mode. So far no loss of sync. Still running the unedited Alpha 17 for MS3 on the Mits CAS. Added fan control and am running CL idle. Seems to idle better at 13 to 1 AFR, which I dont know why. It will surge when the AFR is 14.5 to 1.

http://youtu.be/lDtiZcVKrsc
http://youtu.be/ddx3HKgfr2k
http://youtu.be/GXY9c_G4tbI
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

The Megasquirt is back on the RB26 for this evening. I am using my car as a test bed for the CAS settings for the RB while the other car sits. It is running great with the new settings. The idle issue is gone and the IACV is much more responsive. I drove around tonight to work more on the VE map with analyze live. I need to also work on the accel enrichment as it leans out on accel. It now revs up as far as the tune and traffic will let me go. Got up to 5000rpm with no sync loss. I am going to re-enable O2 feedback and overrun fuel cut too to make it more streetable. Those settings didnt work too well with the old CAS programming.
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
Experienced MS/Extra'er
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

Went track tuning on The RB25NA today. Burned through about 5 gallons of gas smoothing out the VE map. It looks beautiful now running ITB mode. It idles great, but needs some accel enrichment and ignition tuning. It sounds wonderful through the velocity stacks. Most of this map was done with Analyze Live with a little smoothing after the fact.

Image
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

A lot more work done today. Lot more fuel added up top. Car sounds like pure sex.

http://youtu.be/mOnaceXoJHs
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
ill-minded
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Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by ill-minded »

Nice work. What sort of power are you expecting from the RB25?
winstonusmc
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

Not much in this form. I have read on the Australian forums that a N/A RB25 can get mid 200s with a lot of work, but I just did it for fun. It will go in an old S30Z in the US. Then it will be more correct. I am not in it for the power anymore.
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
ill-minded
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by ill-minded »

~200hp sounds like a healthy figure in an S30Z anyway. I like that someone else out there isn't actually chasing numbers. :) Sounds tough though.

How's the vacuum signal with the ITBs anyway? I've got GSX-R throttles on a 3 cylinder Daihatsu and the idle sits around 50kpa.
winstonusmc
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

The vacuum sits around 48 or so in the logs. I am also using the factory RB26 vacuum chamber as well.
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

Sunday at the track was a great success. The second day at the track wasnt too exciting when it was all said and done. I think my buddy was kinda bummed at the lack of power. I thought about it for a while and decided to attempt some actual power tuning, a first for me. I pulled the GTec RR out of the cupboard and hooked it up yesterday. Not knowing where everything really was, I performed a baseline run. I then dropped the upper half of the map 4 degrees and tried again. Immediately I realized I went the wrong way. I added 6 degrees and made a pass. I added 2 more degrees three times for a final total of 8 degrees over my baseline. Increase was about 45% increase as power numbers are really irrelevant from the GTec. Also, there wasnt much of a straight line to get good 2nd gear pulls. Next track session, I will get some better runs in. Also, the AFRs were a little wierd, which might be causing the bumpiness. The AFR is set to 12.5 accross the map.

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40 degrees timing at 100% load!
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
winstonusmc
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

OK, so the math was off, 90% increase at 5000rpm
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
Mario
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by Mario »

Hey winstonusmc, you have some good info thanks!

I have a friend that wants to MS hos RB26DETT. My question to you is do you piggy back the stock ECU or are you replacing it all together?
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claycity
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by claycity »

u still on oki?
winstonusmc
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

No, I left about two years ago. I wish I was still there. I am playing around with Datsuns in San Diego right now.
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
claycity
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Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by claycity »

that sucks would love to pick ur brain agout ur rb26 MS setup
On ur RB26 did u run all stock sensors? I see u used the stock CAS wheel any other advice on setting it up.
Thanks for helping.
winstonusmc
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:45 am

Re: RB26 and RB25NA Running MS3+MS3X

Post by winstonusmc »

The RB26 had all stock sensors. Well except for the onboard MAP sensor that came with the MS3. I just built a patch harness with an input for a wideband to tune with.
Nissan Skyline R34 RB26DETT ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Hitachi CAS (sold)
Nissan Silvia S14 RB25DE ITB/NA ran MS3/MS3X w/ factory Mitsubishi CAS (disassembled)
Datsun 240z RB25DE ITB/NA with MS3/MS3X
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