CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

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CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:14 pm

[ EDIT- Here is a link to the entire build thread on NJJC ]

Hey all-

After seeing my buddy's turbo'd 4 cylinder TJ go I knew it was a turbo for me. I was going to need more power with the 37's (I drive it-- no trailer for me) I was planning on running and just didn't want to do a V-8 swap.

I picked up the manifold from BoostWerks in Colorado, after seeing his build thread on NAXJA. He also sold me the Garrett turbo, Ford 47lb injectors, and Tial WG & BOV. I only went ahead with that order once I found out that Megasquirt (MS) had a system that would work with all the factory sensors I was using.


Had to relocate the drivers motor mount
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Plumbed
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Ford 47lb injectors & a 62MM TB
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Aeromotive Stealth in the RCI tank, using the OEM Jeep YJ unit.
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Wrapped it
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Full 2.5 304SS exhaust
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Last edited by Jeep-Power on Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Peter
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:14 pm

Ebay intercooler and piping
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the electronics- :D
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DIY's 6 terminal coil.
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-Peter
MS3Pro in a Turbo'd Jeep 4.2/4.0 6 Cyl (T3/T4), Seq Inj, Wasted Spark, Intercooler, BOV & WG
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:55 pm

now for the real work-

I considered myself somewhat familiar with electronic fuel injection- I have had this Jeep running with two different EFI kits in the past. It had the Electromotive JFI kit on it for about 140K miles. After that died and they would not fix it, I was able totransplant the head & EFI from a '92 Jeep 4.0 onto the recently rebuilt 4.2 bottom end.

Well, I knew setting up and tuning this MS3Pro was going to be way over my head. It has not failed to live up to that expectation.

The first issue was me missing a crucial step in the crank position wiring directions, for Jeep OBD1 systems. I needed to add the included pull-up resistors that MS suggests. I did not catch that until I printed out the entire manual. After that I got some spark.

the 6 output coil pack was wired in correctly, but for whatever reason, the coils were not firing int he sequence they should. Some quick work with a timing light and I was able to figure out which coil was firing at TDC. With the wires configured correctly, it fired right up. Wow, that was easy!

I then tried like hell to get a 700RPM idle, but nothing I did made a difference. THe stepper simply wasn't working. After blowing the stepper driver twice, I sent the MS3 back to DIY for some repair and some R&D. They were more concerned than I was about the issue. IN the mean time, I had a trailride to make (and a 400 mile round trip). I had to get this thing running well enough to make it home on it's own power. A crude IAC manual valve was the ticket. Starts were a little rough, but a hand throttle helped once it got running.
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Well, that was back in October. I had two more trailrides to make (and move from NJ to SC), right after I got the MS3 back form DIY, so the manual stayed until this past week. It is working, but i need to spend a bit more time figuring all the controls & tables for the stepper IAC.

Which leads me to my big issue. The fuel pressure is not at all stable...
-Peter
MS3Pro in a Turbo'd Jeep 4.2/4.0 6 Cyl (T3/T4), Seq Inj, Wasted Spark, Intercooler, BOV & WG
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby nismoautoxr » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:31 pm

"Which leads me to my big issue. The fuel pressure is not at all stable..."


Looks like a superfun project. You got any sort of baffling in that fuel cell?
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby bleoh » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:16 pm

Looks like a fun project. I have the same engine in my 1984 CJ7, 4.2L bored 30 over and the 7120 head from a 4.0. Runs real good on MegaSquirt and I am a hack when it comes to tuning. How much boost are you shooting for?

You don't happen to still have the Electomotive kit do you? I look for them on ebay every once in a while for the trigger wheel just to try it with MegaSquirt.

Good luck with it. Brian.
MS2 v3.0 MT2.25 controlling 6 high z injectors and ignition
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:36 am

bleoh wrote:Looks like a fun project. I have the same engine in my 1984 CJ7, 4.2L bored 30 over and the 7120 head from a 4.0. Runs real good on MegaSquirt and I am a hack when it comes to tuning. How much boost are you shooting for?

You don't happen to still have the Electomotive kit do you? I look for them on ebay every once in a while for the trigger wheel just to try it with MegaSquirt.

Good luck with it. Brian.



Brian, thanks.

running 6-7 PSI of boost right now. I am still tuning the timing on the vacuum side and trying to get the IAC to behave itself.

I gave the Electromotive kit to a friend of mine. Doesn't Electromotive still sell the trigger wheel kit separately?
-Peter
MS3Pro in a Turbo'd Jeep 4.2/4.0 6 Cyl (T3/T4), Seq Inj, Wasted Spark, Intercooler, BOV & WG
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby bleoh » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:25 pm

I found a place in CA on ebay that says they have it. I may give them a try.

My OBD1 IAC seems to work fine. There was a mode I did a long time ago to bypass a couple of resisters on the v3 board, but I am not sure if that is still recommended or applies to the MS3Pro. If DIY is helping you with it you have the right people on it!

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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:12 pm

nismoautoxr wrote:"Which leads me to my big issue. The fuel pressure is not at all stable..."


Looks like a superfun project. You got any sort of baffling in that fuel cell?



no-- just have the pickups spread to both sides of the tank. An accumulator might be in the future.
-Peter
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:28 pm

bleoh wrote:My OBD1 IAC seems to work fine. There was a mode I did a long time ago to bypass a couple of resisters on the v3 board, but I am not sure if that is still recommended or applies to the MS3Pro. If DIY is helping you with it you have the right people on it!

Brian



I finally got the IAC to work well, little credit to me. The DIY help was great for the basic stuff, but I needed Jeep details. I got a ton of help from Frank in a 'HELP!' thread [THREAD LINK]- He has a NA 4.0 with a MS3X that runs well; he shared his settings with me and helped me a ton, via email. Thanks again Frank! :yeah!: That got me 'on the green' and pointed in the right direction. I found I had to lower my idle and crank steps pretty low. The engine will idle (barely) with the IAC fully closed.

I don't know if it is possible, but I have been tinkering & tuning the startup in hopes to get it to behave like an OEM setup. From what I read around here, that might be a longshot.

I am gonna post my latest tune file. I plan on getting a data log of a cold start and a run to the gas station tomorrow.

Future plans are to get it to a tuner with a dyno in order to get the spark map as close to ideal as possible. Jeeps operate most of the time between just off idle to about 2400RPM. Getting that area well tuned will help a ton with fuel mileage and of-idle snap.

PS-- this is the 'finished' Jeep and my buddy Randy:
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-Peter
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby matt rendas » Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:44 am

Nice work!
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:33 pm

matt rendas wrote:Nice work!


thanks!

Slowly working through all the bugs here.

It starts up cold well and settles into a nice idle when warm. The timing map (mostly stock below 100kPa) is as ironed out as it is gonna get without a load dyno. It pulls very nicely and I get full boost (5PSI) at about 2300RPM.

The biggest issues right now are the fuel boiling after the hot engine sits for a short time (15 min or more). It runs lean for the first few minutes, but as soon as the air works out of the rail, it seems fine. A flow-through fuel rail setup is in the future. Hopefully that will solve this issue.

The second issue is voltage. This *should* be an easy fix. I have a 80's style exciter wire alternator that is misbehaving. I finally realized that I have atleast 17V running through the electrical system. :shock:
-Peter
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby BigLou240sx » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:10 pm

Jeep-Power wrote:The biggest issues right now are the fuel boiling after the hot engine sits for a short time (15 min or more). It runs lean for the first few minutes, but as soon as the air works out of the rail, it seems fine. A flow-through fuel rail setup is in the future. Hopefully that will solve this issue.


Are you sure that this isn't a case of a heatsoaked MAT/IAT sensor scenario? Have you checked what your MAT temp and gamma air correction is when it starts and runs lean?
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:12 pm

BigLou240sx wrote:
Are you sure that this isn't a case of a heatsoaked MAT/IAT sensor scenario? Have you checked what your MAT temp and gamma air correction is when it starts and runs lean?



No, not entirely sure. I do have the "ignore MAT correction" setting to "on" under Startup/Idle.

What leads me to think it is the fuel boiling is that the fuel pressure in the rail drops about 5 Lbs when the lean afterstart is going on. THe fuel pressure slowly rises and the lean condition goes away.

I did suspect the IAT, but it isn't super high. I will keep a closer eye on it, thanks.

What is the gamma air correction, what does it do, and where is it, please?
-Peter
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby nismoautoxr » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:13 pm

If you wanna experiment .....since you have "ignore MAT correction during ASE "turned on just find out what temps it is happening at and extend ASE taper at that temp to like 2000 cycles and by the time ASE ends ...your hot fuel has been moved and the MAT has cooled back off. It works. Its a workaround but its very affective.
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1995 Nissan 240sx, 403 LS strokerv8 N/A 6speed trans
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:37 pm

nismoautoxr wrote:If you wanna experiment .....since you have "ignore MAT correction during ASE "turned on just find out what temps it is happening at and extend ASE taper at that temp to like 2000 cycles and by the time ASE ends ...your hot fuel has been moved and the MAT has cooled back off. It works. Its a workaround but its very affective.



nice, thanks! I had it extended out to the max on the graph (500 cycles). I didn't realize I could go further. It allows it out to 2500 cycles. Let's see how that does. It is gonna be a while before i will have the ability to fab up the flow-through rail (living in a condo until the Spring)
-Peter
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby nismoautoxr » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:41 pm

I essentially am doing the same thing as you with my rail/fuel system. The pump and regulator are in the rear of the car and there is 1 fuel line going to the rail and that is it. I do not have the kindof heat you do since I dont have a big honking turbo and hot header within inches of the intake manifold so its not nearly as big an issue for me but for whatever reason (the exact reason escapes me at the moment) ...I had to use that workaround because on a 90+ degree day on a hot restart the dang thing would lean out and act a dang fool for about 3 minutes . This stopped that . You dont have to use much ASE either ...5% is what I believe I was using at 210F for ASE with 2000 cycles in taper . Youll have to play a bit with it to see what works best on the %age for you .
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1995 Nissan 240sx, 403 LS strokerv8 N/A 6speed trans
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sequential fuel and sequential spark
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.60 trim T4 Turbo at 15 PSI
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:51 pm

Still dealing with the heat gremlin in the fuel rail, but overall its running better than ever. Took it on a six hour ride last week through some mountains north of Charlotte. Averaged 16+ miles to the gallon with 4.10 gears and 37 inch mud tires. Able to maintain 75 miles an hour & rarely hit full boost.
-Peter
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby R100RT » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:24 am

Excellent job and project. I'm "almost" inclined to add our family GC 2000 Jeep with 4.0L to the MS project list. You don't happen to have a bit more info on the Garret Turbo? Like full model number, or performance map? I have a slightly large donor turbo sitting on the shelf that in some future endeavour might end up on the Jeep 8)
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Chrisfol82 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:17 pm

Hey, just saw your post and thought it looked pretty interesting. I have a similar setup, 4.2 with 4.0 head and megasquirt controller with ford EDIS ignition system. It has ran pretty well for me, and i was considering looking in to putting a turbo on it. Do you have any good pictures of your install. The earlier pics from the thread seem to have disappeared. The only one showing up is the intercooler sitting in the grille. I was just looking at mine and wondering how id fit the intercooler in there with the piping to fit with the stock radiator and headlight buckets and fender mounting points. Also would be interested in seeing how you mounted your turbo, and which turbo you went with. Looks like a T3/T4 is used frequently on the 4.2/4.0.

I had some trouble with my IAC as well, it never really acted right and i could never get it working properly. One time youd start it up and it would come down to idle fine and work its way closed until the engine warmed up, then youd go to start it again and it would stay open leading to a high idle, sometimes 1500-2000 rpm but sometimes inconsistent. Usually i would have to shut it off and restart it and sometimes this would bring it back to a normal idle. I tried a new IAC module and had the same problems. Did you get yours working right?
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Re: CJ-7 Jeep 4.2 / 4.0 Hybrid with MS3Pro & Turbo

Postby Jeep-Power » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:37 pm

Chris-

thanks.

Unfortunately those pics were hosted in Tapatalk and we lost the Tapatalk on that forum when we upgraded VBulliten. I will have to pull them off the storage drive , upload them to Photobucket, & revamp this & that build thread one of these days...

I can tell you the intercooler/radiator is a TIGHT fit-- the intercooler pressed against the back side of the grille ( I shaves a bit off the backside of the slats). I had to trim the headlight buckets to clear the intercooler plumbing. It took hours of trial fitting -- taking the assembly in & out & apart more times than I can count. It was worth it. The fender mounting bolts were not affected.

Apologies to thosse above for not getting more info on the turbo-- from the label on the box- Garrett T3/T4E, 57 Trim, Stage3, T3 4 Bolt, .82 A/R As I knew nothing about turbos at the start of this project, did not choose this turbo. It was reccomended by the manifold builder, Boostwerks.


I have finally got the IAC nailed down. I took getting the Jeep to a tuner with a load dyno first. THen, with the timing nailed down, I observed the IAC ina IAC housing that was removed from a throttle body. It took a while, but I got it to do what looked right then fine tuned the settings in with it installed & running. A key thing is to make all the steps the same number apart as your minimum steps. I found where it idled well (17) and then made the higher idle and cranking steps even steps above that. Example ; 17 is my base (hot idle) > I have my setps to move at 4. Then the next higher idle (about 170F) was 21. The next colder idle step (150F) was 25, and so on. I hope that makes sense. I have the "Stepper always on" selected. There are some other details-- let me know if you need more


The pass though fuel rail has helped immensely with hot starts. It still runs a tad lean on a hot start after it has been sitting. The ASE helps keep that to a minimum. I bought a FAST blank fuel rain and drilled/reamed the holes.
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-Peter
MS3Pro in a Turbo'd Jeep 4.2/4.0 6 Cyl (T3/T4), Seq Inj, Wasted Spark, Intercooler, BOV & WG
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