TS first try

For discussion of Phil Tobin's Tuner Studio software (Only about the tuning software itself, not about how to tune or firmware features)

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GintsK
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TS first try

Post by GintsK »

Hello!

I am so conservative - I used MT all the time. But new 3.0.3 does not support MT.
So I was forced to try TS. I like many graphical features of TS
But here i want to write just about troublesome details not good details witch is in majority :)
Gauges. Lost some easy to read. I think because Gauge name has too big letters (can be smaller because it not necessary to read it every time) But numerical value should be in bold or/and bigger. But seems MS-extra analog bar dashbord is close to perfect. I will try it!
Also some lag (XP 1300Mhz 1Gb RAM). On MT gauge reacts immediately. On TS - not. It is harder to catch things like play between throttle axle and TPS because this.
Hot keys. I miss (or can't find) keys for fast msq saving (Alt-F-S), fast table import from MLV (Alt-F-I) (not even possible (?) on 3D)
2DAxis when Celsius makes graphs tiny. May be it is MS code issue: when sweeping some point on e.g. on PWM valve graph changes not applies on valve until Burn.
But Burn resets something in MS. Generaly hard to tune PID idle.
3D not hot keys above. Generaly good! It seems to me that edited yellow points could be 3 time smaller. These big points little disturbs visibility of surface. Alt-B seems work. But after using of mouse is necessary to activate 3D key tuning again.

Gints
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
LT401Vette
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Re: TS first try

Post by LT401Vette »

Gauges. Lost some easy to read. I think because Gauge name has too big letters (can be smaller because it not necessary to read it every time) But numerical value should be in bold or/and bigger. But seems MS-extra analog bar dashbord is close to perfect. I will try it!
Good point... The value probably should be bigger than the title on the default dash.
Also some lag (XP 1300Mhz 1Gb RAM). On MT gauge reacts immediately. On TS - not. It is harder to catch things like play between throttle axle and TPS because this.
Depending on your video drivers, the default settings can get more demanding. TS automatically slows the dashboard painting rate if it is using 40% of your CPU, this can cause slower response. If you set:
dashShowFPS=true
In the TunerStudio.properties file it will show the fps it is painting at.
On that class of machine one thing that generally makes a big difference is turning Anti-Aliasing off by right clicking on the menu. On a newer video card it does little to nothing, but on an older machine like that can double the paint rate.
Also the more complex the dash the more CPU it will take.

On the next release I did some more optimizing on the default dash painting which increased fps about 60% on my old T23 (1.13 GHz).
Also, I have put in a Lite mode where it turns off all the resource using features.
Hot keys. I miss (or can't find) keys for fast msq saving (Alt-F-S), fast table import from MLV (Alt-F-I) (not even possible (?) on 3D)
CTRL + S Saves an msq
I'm not sure where the Alt+f went for the file menu. I'll have to check.
I don't know if there is a Hot key for table import, I'll add one.
It seems to me that edited yellow points could be 3 time smaller.
Yeah they probably could drop in size.
Alt-B seems work. But after using of mouse is necessary to activate 3D key tuning again.
I'll have to fix that.


Thanks good feedback.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
GintsK
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Posts: 274
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Re: TS first try

Post by GintsK »

One more thing. I do not knew what is cause for this, but i will post here.

It's about spark table switching from TPS signal. When activated, I have access just to 3D spark table2 but no access to numerical one. I found possibility to import desired table by direct edditing .msq.

But that was not all. When table was active, only first - lowest load row was used.

Gints
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
elaw
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Location: Wilmington, MA

Re: TS first try

Post by elaw »

LT401Vette wrote:
It seems to me that edited yellow points could be 3 time smaller.
Yeah they probably could drop in size.
Phil,

It sounds like a good solution would be a menu item for "screen element size" with selections "large/normal/small" that would affect the size of fonts, data points, lines in graphs, etc.
Eric Law
1990 Audi 80 quattro with AAN turbo engine: happily running on MS3+MS3X
2012 Audi A4 quattro, desperately in need of tweaking

Be alert! America needs more lerts.
GintsK
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Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:15 am
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Re: TS first try

Post by GintsK »

Also one significant point for people with disturbed color vision (like me) or even color-blindness - can you take a care like Eric does: point and crest for tuning/current point in 3D?
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
LT401Vette
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Posts: 12697
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:07 am
Location: Moorseville, NC
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Re: TS first try

Post by LT401Vette »

point and crest for tuning/current point in 3D
I don't understand?
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
GintsK
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Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:15 am
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Re: TS first try

Post by GintsK »

I mean this:
http://hem.passagen.se/spretten2003/exj ... age022.jpg
http://www.blackhawkengr.com/Black%20Ha ... age034.jpg
(just old screenshots from google)

Any thougts about table switching issue?

Gints
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
elaw
Super MS/Extra'er
Posts: 2926
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:20 am
Location: Wilmington, MA

Re: TS first try

Post by elaw »

I think maybe he meant "point and click"... you click a point in the graph, then use arrow keys to increase/decrease the value?

Gints, the problem that can occur with point-and-click is that depending on the values and how the graph is displayed, sometimes parts of the graph can "hide" other parts. So you wouldn't be able to click on a point that was hidden behind another.
Eric Law
1990 Audi 80 quattro with AAN turbo engine: happily running on MS3+MS3X
2012 Audi A4 quattro, desperately in need of tweaking

Be alert! America needs more lerts.
GintsK
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:15 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: TS first try

Post by GintsK »

No no. I just about pointers on 3D graph. See pictures from my previous post.
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
LT401Vette
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Posts: 12697
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:07 am
Location: Moorseville, NC
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Re: TS first try

Post by LT401Vette »

Do you mean the big red X cursor instead of a bulb?

You can turn off the color shading of the grid and change the colors of the bulb if that helps.

elaw,
You shouldn't have to point and click 1st, the arrow keys will move it around.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
GintsK
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Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:15 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: TS first try

Post by GintsK »

LT401Vette wrote:Do you mean the big red X cursor instead of a bulb?

You can turn off the color shading of the grid and change the colors of the bulb if that helps.

elaw,
You shouldn't have to point and click 1st, the arrow keys will move it around.
Imagine you are color-blind. Then colors does not help a lot. Eric used crest (X) and bulb (o) to make an aditional difference.
OK may be it is not so important. But anyway - likable detail.

Gints
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
LT401Vette
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Posts: 12697
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:07 am
Location: Moorseville, NC
Contact:

Re: TS first try

Post by LT401Vette »

Ok, I finally get it :)

The active following marker is a different shape from the selected position.

Good point.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
GintsK
Experienced MS/Extra'er
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:15 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: TS first try

Post by GintsK »

:) Sorry for my poor English!
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
mike_robert
Helpful MS/Extra'er
Posts: 139
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:26 am

Re: TS first try

Post by mike_robert »

You communicate better than many US citizens, believe me! Good point you brought to the table, by the way...
GintsK
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Re: TS first try

Post by GintsK »

Thanks, Mike! :)

This time I just little retuned already tuned car. But for new project MT had feature: hitting Z gives you 3D map top view. It is important when set axis. Especially on n/a engines with some non OE cams. It would be nice to see this feature again.

What is better: to describe what i miss from old MT? Or describe what I miss at all?

Gints
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
jsmcortina
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Location: Birmingham, UK
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Re: TS first try

Post by jsmcortina »

Keep the feature suggestions coming I think. I still want to see "LOGGING"

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
GintsK
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Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:15 am
Location: Riga, Latvia

Re: TS first try

Post by GintsK »

OK then about tables: sometimes I have deep problem with axis. If during tuning is necessary to describe some lumpy area of map - there is more axis together needed. And it would be nice possibility to cut some rpm column from flat area and insert it into lumpy area.

I think "even spacing" feature can be cause of serious errors when some row or column is misplaced. I think this could be just temporary feature which requires activation every time. E. g. by holding some button.

Gints
Some of my instalations:
VW TBI, VW 16V 60-2,
BMW M50 COPs 60-2, BMW M20 and M50 ITBs as Alpha-N, BMW M20 turbo Wasted spark
Opel 20XE Wasted Alpha-N with ITBs
Audi 10VT Audi20V
MR2 3S-GE.............
and over 100 tuned
jsmcortina
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Posts: 39587
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 1:34 am
Location: Birmingham, UK
Contact:

Re: TS first try

Post by jsmcortina »

GintsK wrote:OK then about tables: sometimes I have deep problem with axis. If during tuning is necessary to describe some lumpy area of map - there is more axis together needed. And it would be nice possibility to cut some rpm column from flat area and insert it into lumpy area.
I think that's a very good idea too, for initial table work. I'd also like to be able to alter the kpa/rpm value and (optionally) have TS re-interpolate the VE values.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
New users, please read the "Forum Help Page".
cygnus x-1
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Re: TS first try

Post by cygnus x-1 »

jsmcortina wrote:
GintsK wrote:OK then about tables: sometimes I have deep problem with axis. If during tuning is necessary to describe some lumpy area of map - there is more axis together needed. And it would be nice possibility to cut some rpm column from flat area and insert it into lumpy area.
I think that's a very good idea too, for initial table work. I'd also like to be able to alter the kpa/rpm value and (optionally) have TS re-interpolate the VE values.

James

YES! I've had this exact same thought too. What this is leading to is a more advanced table editor than just manually entering values cell by cell. It would be almost like working with tables in MS Excel. For example; after working on a VE table for awhile you discover that one of the columns or rows is essentially redundant, and that you could simply delete it entirely and let the interpolation between the adjacent columns/rows deal with it. Or you find that some of your RPM or MAP bins are spaced too far apart and you need to add a column/row between them. I've had to do this a few times; and while filling in the new column/row with manually interpolated values isn't that hard, it would be convenient if it could done automatically.

I think this would also make it much easier for people to convert their smaller MS1 tables (8x8?) into larger MS2 tables (12/12 or 16/16).

C|
Gokart
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Re: TS first try

Post by Gokart »

This is one of the reason I want a bigger table in MS. You'll get a right bin every time.
No more going forth and back to plot the right bins.

Haltech platinum have these feature where a user can decide of whatever dimension
of tables you want to a maximum of 32x32. If you are using eg; 8x8 and found that you
need to add another bins, just insert it and it will be inserted at the correct point that will
make the table to be 8x9. Autronics have this feature too.

We should have this good feature to be incorporate into MS.
(4G63T - MSIIextra) (4G13 - MS3-beta testing)
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