Help with some E85 settings

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Help with some E85 settings

Postby ffr3247r » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:53 am

I’m having a difficult time figuring out what I need to do to get this set up correctly.

I have been running a AEM wideband over can and it took a crap so I went with a Ballenger unit set up on lambda which is what I’ve been told I need to be reading in.

Prior I had the req fuel set at 14.7 and the incorporate afr at 14.7 and the wideband properties set to afr. I thought all was ok but was told this isn’t correct.

I got the new wideband and swapped the req fuel and incorporate afr to the 9.8 stioch for E85 and immediately my be table was super lean. At this time I had not changed the project property to read in lambda. I was using gas afr.

Last night I swapped to lambda in the project properties and no matter what gauge I swap to I never get the lambda reading that’s reflected in he Ballenger controller.

Where am I going wrong
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby LT401Vette » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:03 pm

Sounds like you made multiple changes at once?

What are you focused on now changing Widebands or changing fuels?

The Ballenger set up works fine, that is what I am using in my car with the ntk sensor.
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http://www.TunerStudio.com
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby ffr3247r » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:43 pm

Sorry some things get lost in forums while typing.

I’m running E85 and have been the entire time just on the gas AFR scale.

I never changed my req fuel or the incorporate afr number to 9.8 it’s always been at 14.7. I’ve been told numberous times that I should be reading in lambda and that these fields need to be 9.8.

I installed the Ballenger unit and picked the NGK sensor from the drop down on the project properties. The linear values were in the gas scale. I later realized that these should be in the lambda scale because that’s how my controller is set up.

I used the numbers listed in the manual that came with the Ballenger unit. I switched my req fuel and incorporate afr numbers to 9.8.

I wasn’t able to get a lambda gauge to read what the Ballenger unit was displaying. Not sure where I went wrong
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby ffr3247r » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:47 pm

I may mess with it some this weekend if I don’t get to frustrated.
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby ffr3247r » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:39 pm

Never could get this working.

Phil you say you run this same Ballenger wideband?

In the properties did you use .622 for zero vilts and 1.098 for the 5 volt?
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby LT401Vette » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:22 am

ffr3247r wrote:Never could get this working.

Phil you say you run this same Ballenger wideband?

In the properties did you use .622 for zero vilts and 1.098 for the 5 volt?


No, you need to use gasoline AFR for calibrating, not lambda.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby Tjabo » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:40 pm

ffr3247r, if Phil and I are saying opposite things about your wideband, then go with what he says for sure. Not being sure about that particular brand of wideband, I thought a little bit of general explanation might be helpful for your situation if it isn't resolved yet:

I'm running E85. I used 11:1 for the stoich (air fuel ratio) number in the Req Fuel calculator. I'm not sure if that number has worked well for others, because true stoich depends on your ethanol percentage in your "E85". I noticed that I usually seem to need to add a bit over 30% to my gasoline fuel amount, so I just did a bit of calculating from that.

As far as the scale you set your wideband to display in, it just needs to be something you're comfortable with. Lambda is the most correct to use, but really any fuel's display scale is just lambda x the appropriate stoich multiplier for that fuel, so it really doesn't matter at all.
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby LT401Vette » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:25 am

It is a bit screwy, but the Wideband calibration tables are always in Gasoline AFR, whether you are set for AFR or Lambda and no matter what stoich you have set.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby ffr3247r » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:47 pm

Any plans in the future for lambda to be the used over AFR?

I never did make any headway with this and ended up going to all AFR gas scale since I knew what I was doing with that and I already knew the scales. I may try again at a later time.
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby Tjabo » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:55 pm

Phil, am I understanding correctly, or am I all screwed up -- I can't see any reason to move away from the gasoline AFR scale if that is what you're used to looking at...? Especially on something like E85 that is so variable. Although I understand that some people would say that is exactly why you would want to move away from it to lambda. But to me it is a distinction without a difference.
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby LT401Vette » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:53 am

I stand corrected... The current firmwares do want the AFR Calibration set with the proper AFR's for your fuel. That didn't used to work.

It seems I need to put it on the todo list to have TS adjust the drop down calibrations for specific sensors to adjust to the fuel stoich.
Phil Tobin
EFI Analytics, helping to simplify EFI
Next Generation tuning software.
Supporting all MegaSquirt versions and firmwares.
http://www.TunerStudio.com
http://www.efiAnalytics.com/MegaLogViewer/
Support the firmware running your engine:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/donations.html
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Re: Help with some E85 settings

Postby ffr3247r » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:07 am

Great.

So I’m not losing my mind. I thought to myself , I built my whole MS, wiring harness , did a LS conversion on a 66 mustang and swapped to a strut front end but I can’t get my wideband to do what i want
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