Trans control - 0020 release

'Microsquirt' Transmission Control development and support.

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prof315
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by prof315 »

It looks like even though the 4T40E has 3 signal wires and switches in the TFP assembly it only uses 2 (B and C) for position detection. The 3rd wire is for TCC engagement detection.

The switch logic is as follows: Park/Neutral Switch B Hi Switch C Hi
Reverse Switch B Hi Switch C Low
Drive Switch B Low Switch C Hi
Invalid Switch B Low Switch C Low

If there is any other information you need to make this work James, such as gear ratios, normal shift points, etc.... please let me know. I have access to the factory service info now.
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by jsmcortina »

No manual gear positions on the 4T40E ?

The 4L40E and 5L40E look to follow a similar control strategy to the 4L80E, so ought to be straightforward to add. I need to consider the engine-breaking solenoid though. That linked PDF doesn't show the 4L40E solenoid pattern, can't be exactly the same as "all-OFF" needs to give a gear and not the non existant 5th ?

The Microsquirt has six easy outputs for solenoids, so the 5L40E is ok there.

When I get back to this in a couple of weeks, I'll re-arrange the code some more to support more gears and look to add in these models also.

James
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prof315
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by prof315 »

Apparently not. Just the park/neutral, reverse and drive.
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by ashford »

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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by jsmcortina »

Good info, but slightly confusing at times.
On page G192 there is a selector diagram (a truth table would be better.) Does "DR" mean "Drive position" (i.e. manual 3rd), "Drive and Reverse", "Drive" (meaning 4,3,2,1) ?

That's probably easy enough to figure out on an install if I just make status indicators on the dash - the user can just run through the positions and draw up the truth table.

The output pattern is the same as the 4L80E.

James
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prof315
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by prof315 »

jsmcortina wrote:
Good info, but slightly confusing at times.
On page G192 there is a selector diagram (a truth table would be better.) Does "DR" mean "Drive position" (i.e. manual 3rd), "Drive and Reverse", "Drive" (meaning 4,3,2,1) ?

That's probably easy enough to figure out on an install if I just make status indicators on the dash - the user can just run through the positions and draw up the truth table.

The output pattern is the same as the 4L80E.

James
Here's the problem with G192, even though it shows an A, B and C pressure switch signal, it doesn't use the "A" signal for anything. Or at least it doesn't on 05 models. They use the input and output speeds instead to calculate the actual gear ratio and compare that to the known commanded gear ratio. If it matches then all is good, if not CEL comes on and an incorrect gear ratio code is set. And DR is Drive meaning 4,3,2,1 and the 05 truth table is what I posted at the top of this page
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by ashford »

asside from the pressure manifold there is also the lever position sensor, using 3 of the 4 outs can give different signals for gear position
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by Paul_VR6 »

Thanks James. I'm still looking for info on the shift lever position when BMW introduced the steptronic lever and the +/- "manual" gate. In that case it only gets PNRD with a side action to get into "manual" mode.
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by jsmcortina »

The actual selector input doesn't matter - the code can surely accomodate them. It is really a matter of deciding what is actually present on different vehicles and naming a transmission application in the code appropriately.

So the difference between 2 wire 4T40E and 3 wire 4T40E isn't a problem so long as someone can confirm solidly "this is how it actually works" using stock wiring on their install. i.e. the aim is to make the code transferrable to other customers with the minimal amount of"mods.

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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by prof315 »

James,
The vehicle that got this whole conversation going is currently running on stock management. They just had to do some ugly hacking to make it all work and want/need a more elegant solution. (The PCM needs both the BCM and a custom Arduino board to work at all!) I will try to go Monday and do some testing to get the info needed for the TFP switches and see if the 05 models have switch "A" wired in the trans itself.
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by nathaninwa »

Thanks for working on this James. My current project is getting a 4l80e and will be running microsquirt for tranny and ms3pro for engine management.

Everything looks great and very user friendly.

Two questions. Is there an option for outputs to have a dash indicator in leds for gear postion?

And a Dyno question. Is there a way to lock it in Drive? Or is it just creating a Dyno tune where 1/2 gears are setup low on the upshifts?
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by Raymond_B »

Regarding 3rd gear(1:1) dyno pulls. With chip tuning software like SCT you would just set the MPH for the 2-3 downshift to something really low so it would never downshift. And then manually hit the OD cancel.

I need to find some Ford E4OD info for this conversation. It would be awesome to have an all MS solution for an early Lightning :)
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prof315
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by prof315 »

prof315 wrote:James,
The vehicle that got this whole conversation going is currently running on stock management. They just had to do some ugly hacking to make it all work and want/need a more elegant solution. (The PCM needs both the BCM and a custom Arduino board to work at all!) I will try to go Monday and do some testing to get the info needed for the TFP switches and see if the 05 models have switch "A" wired in the trans itself.
Time constraints kept me from getting a truth table but it looks like the 05 and up 4T40Es do have the Switch "A" wired so I've just got to do some testing. I'm heading to Hawaii in a couple of hours for vacation (Hence no megameet this year :( ) but I'll get the info when I return.
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gndan
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by gndan »

James,

I PM'd you about two 4L80Es with similar shift controller problems where the speed sensor drops out around 45MPH and reads approximately half speed. I am not sure if this will require a hardware or software fix, feel free to answer on here, I know others have had this problem as well.

Thanks, Dan
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by Matt Cramer »

Junkyard 4L60E arrived today. The pickup goes on the lift tomorrow...
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by Raymond_B »

James, does this thread provide any useful info for the Ford E4OD?

http://www.msgpio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=563
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by jsmcortina »

Raymond_B wrote:James, does this thread provide any useful info for the Ford E4OD?

http://www.msgpio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=563
Lots of excellent info there.

James
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by jsmcortina »

Matt Cramer wrote:Junkyard 4L60E arrived today. The pickup goes on the lift tomorrow...
Driving yet?!?

James
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by Joe »

4t40RangeSw.txt
4t40RangeSw.rtf
Hope this helps-(2005)

Joe
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prof315
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Re: Trans control - 0020 release

Post by prof315 »

Joe wrote:
4t40RangeSw.txt
4t40RangeSw.rtf
Hope this helps-(2005)

Joe
Perfect! Thanks Joe!

And looking at it signal "P" could be left out and just "A" "B" and "C" used like the 4L80-E
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