Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Testing and development of Megasquirt 3

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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

Over the last few days I wired up the nitrous outputs on my MS3 card using a temporary adapter board.

Today I took the car to the drag strip and did some testing on MS3. This is the first time I've used MS3 on the strip. Without nitrous the car ran an identical time to last time out on MS1. The MS1 has had four years of tuning refinement, so I was satisfied with an equal ET/MPH.

Then I tried the nitrous. First off with a single stage only.
It worked, but I found I had a setting error with launch, I had my throttle % set to 30%. If I rolled on the throttle I bypassed the launch - only 28% is required for max rpm. Resetting it to 5% solved the issue. I had also not enabled flat-shift, so my 0.5s nitrous delay from launch came on each shift. I ran an unexciting 13.0.

I then enabled second stage and flat-shift.
Wheelspin off line and ran a 12.3 / 111.
I did another couple of 12.3 passes.

The track wasn't the best and I failed to tame down my launches enough to avoid wheelspin.

I have run some 11.9s on a perfect track (with MS1) and everything in my favour.

Fairly pleased with the result, not sure if I'll make the final meeting in a fortnight to try out progressive control of the second stage.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by Tjabo »

I hope you can make that last meeting James! I REALLY want us to learn more about running these solenoids in a fashion that allows them to do a metering function like I gather they do in the progressive nitrous application?

Glad the MS3 worked well for you, there's a lot of potential in this sucker!

Thad
--'98 Dodge Neon ACR Turbo - MS3 beta test car - Sold
--'97 BMW 540i/6spd - Single Front/Top Mount Turbo 550+ HP - MS3+MS3X V3.0 - Sold but ripping in Vegas
--'97 BMW 328i 5.3 L33/TH400 Swapped drift car - MS3+MS3X V3.0 Full Sequential - Turbos And Radiator In the Trunk 9.6@144 on a 1.55 60ft
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

Had a non-MS3 problem with the car today. First cold day of winter, around freezing point.
Car wouldn't start, the LEDs for spark weren't flashing.

I didn't fetch the laptop as I was pretty sure of the issue - the engine was cranking too slowly to get a signal.
So, with my jump charge unit connected on its boost-start setting, it cranked at about twice the speed and the engine fired right up.

The car then drove fine on the latest code snapshot.

So... I think I need to reduce my VR sensor to trigger wheel gap a little. It has been a long while since I've used the car in the cold weather, so the problem is likely to have been hiding there all that time.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

I have some hall sensors on order so I can get the MS3X and sequential fuel running on the car. I have made the loom already.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

I've been working on modifying my dizzy stub to act as a cam phase sensor over the last few days. Here's a few photos.
100_0683sm.jpg
100_0684sm.jpg
100_0682sm.jpg
James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

Installed the dizzy stub cam sensor and MS3X board.

Got it fired up on sequential (briefly.) The car is outside and it has been raining and snowing today, so installing my wiring wasn't much fun. I didn't run it for more than a few seconds as it is getting a bit late and the car isn't exactly quiet.

I fitted a 1k pullup on the cam input on the MS3X to suit my cam hall sensor and re-wrote the wheel decoder slightly to support the 50/50 cam wheel I added and given sync within 360 deg.

Presently I have retained the wasted spark coilpacks fired from VB921.

Hopefully I'll be able to do some more testing tomorrow.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

Spent some more time today on the car.

Yesterday in my short drive I had some sync loss, some resets and a couple of instances where the MS3 'crashed'. This was an easy fix. One of my plug leads was touching the wiring loom = BAD. Move that and then had zero sync loss and zero resets.

I have some EGTs hooked up (not the full eight yet) and I experimented somewhat with altering fuel trim and seeing the EGTs change.

I took some logs of a short drive around the block and can't quite explain why cyl no.7 often runs colder then 3 and 5. I plotted charts of EGT difference vs MAP and RPM and see no correlation. This will be an interesting exercise when I have everything installed.

Spark trim didn't appear to be doing a lot, I'll re-check it is working on the bench.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

I did a little re-wiring today and now have the following connected to the MS3X
PWM idle
tacho
nitrous in, stage 1, stage 2 (untested)
shift light (untested)
fan (untested)

Took it for a quick blast down the bypass and nothing new to report, all seems well with engine operation.

Calculations like Accelerometer X, vss1dot (dv/dt) and rpmdot all need some improvement though as they are very noisy. Looks like I pulled about 7ms-2 in first without trying too hard.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

I have just been and fired the car up at -4C here.

Changing my ASE taper to 2000 cycles at low temps (and sweeping the curve down) has cured an issue I've had since MS1. The car fires up fine and then dies after a few seconds on the very first start. Second start is ok. Today it fired up and kept running on its own. I purposefully did not touch the throttle.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / sequential / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

Tested out the dev code (in between 0.18 and 0.19) just now.

I did some experimentation with fuel trim while looking at EGT. I only have three installed at present (despite a full set waiting on the bench.)

It seemed the inner cylinders on the V8 were running a lot hotter (say 70degC) than the outers. I added 12% to the inners, all over. I took 10% out of the outers in the idle region. I didn't want to pull any more out until I've really tested it and get all the EGTs in there. This resulted in all three sensors reporting around 580degC.

With those changes my idle immediately smoothed out, "sounded happier" and the AFR read rich (12.5.) I was able to take about 6% out of my idle VEs and still keep it smoother with low 13 AFRs.

There's plenty more tuning to be done, but this certainly looks a promising start. The trim results seem consistent with that aero engine paper that was linked here. The leaner running on inner cylinders is consistent with the fact that over the years when I've melted a piston on nitrous it has always been no.6.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by chense »

I'm curious about the EGT setup - what probes and amps are you using?

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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

I've presently using some "lab type" K type thermocouple probes. These aren't really the best though as they aren't designed for automotive use. On the bench I have a full set of proper automotive ones that I bought from DIYautotune.

For data capture I'm using the Extender from JBperf, this is connected to the MS3 via CAN.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by Reverant »

jsmcortina wrote:I've presently using some "lab type" K type thermocouple probes. These aren't really the best though as they aren't designed for automotive use. On the bench I have a full set of proper automotive ones that I bought from DIYautotune.

For data capture I'm using the Extender from JBperf, this is connected to the MS3 via CAN.

James

Just a note, I've tried the same sensors as James has (from Farnell) and they hardly lasted 2-3 months each, tops. Don't be tempted, it isn't worth it. I got some proper automotive type and they have been on my exhaust manifold for almost two years.

Jim
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

Last week I finally got all 8 EGTs installed and connected up and this Easter weekend was my first weekend of racing. Track conditions weren't great with overnight rain.

This was my first race meeting with MS3 and MS3X controlling V8 sequential fuel, two stage nitrous, shift light and launch. With the late start from the rain I didn't get much chance to tweak anything, it was a case of getting back into the swing of things and remembering how to change gear fast enough.

I managed to win our meeting though (8 car field).

Here's my first run of Monday.
P1010442.jpg
Here's a picture of a (serial) datalog of that run. Raw log attached.
2010-04-05_10.59.57-edit.png
VSS, accelerometer and EGTs are captured over CAN.

You can see that the EGTs are laggy and probably not a true reflection of the temperature in lower gears. Also WTF is going on with cyl 1 ?

I also have exhaust back pressure, but I only logged that as raw (sensor01) it is a 2.5 bar sensor on a 0-4095 scale and shows ~108kPa at full revs on the nitrous.

James
PS. Thanks to the guy who gave me a jump start in the fire up road when I'd flattened my battery.
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by msoultan »

can you attach your raw log - your picture doesn't show what the lines represent
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

The data labels are there, but I intended to attach the raw log file anyway, so here it is.

James
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by racingmini_mtl »

The EGT data doesn't seem consistent for the entire duration. How fast is the polling for the CAN data? It's also surprising to see how much hotter EGT6 gets.

And the accelerometer data looks nice and well correlated with RPM and speed (speed correlation is a bit harder to tell). I assume that's in m/s2 so you go a bit above 1G in first gear.

Why do you have a dip in spark advance at around 5000 RPM (guess looking at the picture)?

Jean
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Image
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by msoultan »

jsmcortina wrote:The data labels are there, but I intended to attach the raw log file anyway, so here it is.

James
Weird.. I had to open the image in a separate window and then I saw the labels. Thanks!

mike
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by Morten VJ »

James do you still run wastet spark?
Then the strange EGT on cyl 1 and 6 could be relatet to a weak coil.
Like some of the fuel is burning in the exhaust.

Looking at the log, there is 1 thing i don't like.
The falling batt. volt With rpm.
Image

And where is the injektor duty cycle, when running sequential.
DC1 cant be right with 162% as maksimum.
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Re: Ford Cortina / Rover V8 3.9 / bank fire / wasted spark

Post by jsmcortina »

racingmini_mtl wrote:The EGT data doesn't seem consistent for the entire duration. How fast is the polling for the CAN data? It's also surprising to see how much hotter EGT6 gets.
There's a fair bit being polled though. PWMs (1 packet) and ADCs (4 packets)
I was putting the delay down to EGT response time and it is actually better than I expected.
And the accelerometer data looks nice and well correlated with RPM and speed (speed correlation is a bit harder to tell). I assume that's in m/s2 so you go a bit above 1G in first gear.
If you plot against vss1dot you can see a similar trend although somewhat different scale.
Why do you have a dip in spark advance at around 5000 RPM (guess looking at the picture)?
Second stage of nitrous.

Morten,
looks like the DC is miscalculated. It is really 80%. (16ms out of 20ms available in 720 degrees @ 6000rpm)
I'm not sure on the battery voltage - it looks to be a false reading due to wiring - see how it seems to be the exact opposite of coolant ?

James
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