Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Testing and development of Megasquirt 3

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jsmcortina
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Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by jsmcortina »

I have developed a two channel knock-module as an internal add-on for MS3.
knock_module.JPG
The board mounts directly to the top of the MS3 card, fits within the standard case and works with the standard ribbon cables.
For communication with the MS3, it uses 'D14', 'D15', 'D16', 'JS11' and PM2. i.e. you CANNOT use 'LED spark' in conjunction with this board. at the same time.
knock_module_installed.JPG
It utilises a custom knock sensing chip from TI which features software selectable gain and frequency bandpass filters.
When the engine is running COP or sequential and the MS3 knows which cylinder is firing, the firmware allows different gains to be applied to each cylinder and the sensor level per cylinder to be reported.
The firmware allows a user-settable knock "window" (engine angle over which it listens to the sensor.)
You can take a look at these menus in the recent MS3 pre1.1 firmwares if you select "Internal" as the knock sensor.

The hardware works, but a few component values may need optimising based on field trials. The firmware is written but again needs wider field testing to fully prove it out.

I have a handful of assembled boards available.

James
(Edited to add more of the firmware features)
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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elaw
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by elaw »

Dibs! 8)

PM sent...
Eric Law
1990 Audi 80 quattro with AAN turbo engine: happily running on MS3+MS3X
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bcrx7
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by bcrx7 »

Hello James,
I would love to give this a try on the my turbo race car. It is a 4 cylinder (Miata) engine running 20PSI making just under 550HP.
1984 Mazda RX-7 GTM Class (BP Engine + BW-EFR 8374 Turbo Full COP/Sequential on MS3+MS3x)
1986 Toyota 4Runner (22RE running on MS2-Extra 3.2.1)
bubba2533
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by bubba2533 »

jsmcortina wrote: For communication with the MS3, it uses 'D14', 'D15', 'D16', 'JS11' and PM2. i.e. you CANNOT use 'LED spark' in conjunction with this board. at the same time.
I have a difficult time remembering all of the uses and the designations for each pin/pad and function for all of them. The best thing I could find is this http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/hardware.html#pins but it doesn't have PM2 on it. I do know that D14, D15, D16 are related to the LED's and that's about it, but for new people I think that this is something that could be greatly improved.

I don't really have any great suggestions for how to improve it, mainly because I don't understand it very well.

Edit: I am also interested in a beta board for knock control.
97 Subaru Impreza 2.2L - MS3 w/ MS3/x
Reverant
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by Reverant »

Is there a schematic available? I have an MS3 and a couple of these TI chips available.
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by jsmcortina »

PM2 is presently only used with V10/12 running full sequential fuel. Otherwise it is just an unused pin hole on the MS3X.

I've worked out some pricing. This is based on low volume parts costs, with only a slim contribution to my assembly time and recognising that this is beta.

$60 assembled, bench tested and shipped to the USA using "Airsure" postal service.
$50 without testing.

Contact me by PM. First come first served.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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y8s
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by y8s »

So ready. Knock sensor is already wired.
y8s
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by y8s »

how strictly does it rely on JS11?

Could I, for example, trade JS11 for "knock" on the MS3X?

I guess a general question: can you re-map pins and attach it otherwise. My "above MS3" is pretty tight because of P&H drivers...
WestfieldMX5
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by WestfieldMX5 »

Interested as my MS3 is currently on the workbench.
What frequency is it tuned at?
2016 Westfield SEiW MX5 1.8 - 6sp - Torsen - MSM turbo - MS3 Pro - 2.3kg/hp
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by Matt Cramer »

f_devocht wrote: What frequency is it tuned at?
Whatever you want it to be. Actually, there are a couple increments you pick from, but it's software configurable.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
jsmcortina
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by jsmcortina »

The pins chosen are not flexible because most of them are the SPI interface pins on the processor.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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sjf911
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by sjf911 »

That is fantastic. I am running a J&S Interceptor with dual knock sensors so I could run these concurrently for testing as single channel each. Unfortunately, it will be a couple of months before I have my engine and transmission back together and in the car. I'll be happy to be a test mule at that time.
Steve
1983 Porsche 911SC 3.4L, MS-3 v3.57 (pre1.4 alpha1, TS 2.6.14,JBperf I/O extender), MS3X full sequential, RTC, 12x LS2 D585 coil twinplug, PMAS HPX MAF, LC-1, GT35R turbocharged, full-bay intercooler, J&S Interceptor, e85.
gross polluter
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by gross polluter »

PM'd
88 RX-7 TII - MS2 Extra 1.0.2
68 Mustang 351C - MS3X
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masterx81
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by masterx81 »

That's so nice!
I've still not see the tunerstudio settings about this, but there is the ability to change the attenuation proportional to the rpm? Would be nice also to be able to change the base frequency with the load, as when load increase the detonation frequency change a bit due to different chamber temperature (so different speed of sound). There is also the control of the integrator constant (another sort of attenuation avaiable in tpic)?
thanks for your work!
Enrico
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sdezego
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by sdezego »

This is fantastic. I would love to test this out as I have been running KnockSense MS for a long time. Would like to conjoin the hardware/software. Unfortunately, I am currently running LED spark on my current setup. :cry:
'90 Corrado G60 on MSns -e -> MS3 - '62 Harley Panhead

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NiceMan
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by NiceMan »

Good Job boys!!! Thsi is one what i waiting to my ms3 system =)
I have 2.0 Ohc motor in Ford Taunus Coupe 1975 and its running now MS3+ms3x.
Its myself madet 2.0i Turbo project and when this can order to Finland i order it =)
https://www.facebook.com/PikkiS-112502032715453/
https://www.theniceman.com/coppermine/
Ford Taunus Coupe 1975 2.0i Turbo
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Token
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by Token »

Bought time! Haha. PM sent. I have a working car/MS3x setup with two OE knock sensors just sitting there waiting to be used!
I'm an Alpha junkie!!

Old: MSII batch fuel, wasted spark. New: MS3x, sequential fuel, wasted spark, VVTi
Thanks to all who contributed to MSextra and MS3 code and thanks to DIY Tuning!
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by jsmcortina »

The small stock I had is now allocated, pending payment. I'll post here if/when any more are available. First, we need this batch solidly tested on engines.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
MSEXTRA documentation at: http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html
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quark2501
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by quark2501 »

I would like when you have more or one payment is missing.
savagerocco
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Re: Knock module for MS3 (beta test)

Post by savagerocco »

Put me in que......
Brent Savage
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90 audi RS2 20VTQ 6sp MS3, MSX COP and Sequential and now MAF
87 Scirocco 2.0 ABA 16v EIP tubular cast MSII COP
86 Audi 4K20VTQ MSII
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