S54 dual VANOS VVT

Testing and development of Megasquirt 3

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jsmcortina
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S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by jsmcortina »

Are there any potential testers out there for this:

There's information on the engine side config here:
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 0&p=274934
But I'd need composite logs to determine the phasing between the crank and two cam sensors before I can figure out a decoder.

James
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pedalpusher
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by pedalpusher »

James,

I hope you are still wanting to do this. I have been running my S54 for over a year now on MS3. I have it running semi-sequential and with Vanos-deleted. I am ready to get the Vanos working. I just got the cam sensors wired in but haven't had a chance to try them. I am not the best at these things, but I will get a log when I can.

Thank you
Brian
Matt Cramer
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by Matt Cramer »

This guy seems to have it working with existing code:

http://m54megasquirt3.blogspot.com/
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
AbatelliCristian
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by AbatelliCristian »

This guy seems to have it working with existing code:
but I think have modified the cam wheel.... in the setting is indicate 1 tooth... it's no standard m3 codec....

I think in the next weeks I can make a tooth log for this.
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by jsmcortina »

AbatelliCristian wrote:I think in the next weeks I can make a tooth log for this.
OK. Once I have that I can look into a custom decoder.

James
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AbatelliCristian
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by AbatelliCristian »

James, this engine have 2 solenoid for intake and 2 solenoid for exhaust (and have 12v pwm, not ground pwm. Make new circuit fir this.).
I think use one solenoid with 50%duty (setting generic output) and second solenoid for pid or you change the firmware for use 4 output?
pedalpusher
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by pedalpusher »

Hopefully these composite logs, along with my .msq, will help.

I was not sure how to log the crank, intake, and exhaust at the same time. So, I just did the crank with both the intake and exhaust in two separate log files.

I'm not sure if it matters at this point, but the cams are currently set at zero degrees.

Thank you James, and AbatelliCristian, for doing this.
Brian
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by jsmcortina »

So the intake cam is a regular 6 tooth wheel and the exhaust looks to be an 8-2 pattern?

I found the logs I have from a V10 and they use an even 6 tooth wheel on intake and the exhaust is weird. However, the V10 exhaust cam is nicely configured to allow the use of "poll level" to detect the phase.

This S54 exhaust cam is about 60 degrees out of line to do that, so will need more thought. i.e. poll level at tooth #11 would work, but the existing code polls at #2.

EDIT: additionally, what cylinder is near TDC when the missing tooth region of the exhaust cam is by the sensor ?

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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pedalpusher
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by pedalpusher »

The intake is 6 tooth but the exhaust is 8-1.

I removed the valve cover and found that cylinder 3 is at TDC close to the beginning of the gap of the missing tooth region of the exhaust cam, and cylinder 6 is near the end of the gap as well.

I'm not sure if this matters at this point, but the Vanos on the S54 is activated by a positive signal from the ECU, and not a ground signal. From what I've read about other standalone computers is that there is a diode in the Vanos unit that needs to be removed and this allows a ground signal to move the solenoids. Hopefully this makes sense.

Thank you,
Brian
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by jsmcortina »

pedalpusher wrote:The intake is 6 tooth but the exhaust is 8-1.

I removed the valve cover and found that cylinder 3 is at TDC close to the beginning of the gap of the missing tooth region of the exhaust cam, and cylinder 6 is near the end of the gap as well.
What is the firing order of this engine?
I'm not sure if this matters at this point, but the Vanos on the S54 is activated by a positive signal from the ECU, and not a ground signal. From what I've read about other standalone computers is that there is a diode in the Vanos unit that needs to be removed and this allows a ground signal to move the solenoids. Hopefully this makes sense.
Do you have a link to information about removing that diode?
Without removing it you would need to make an external high-side driver box, so it seems like it might be a useful change.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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pedalpusher
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by pedalpusher »

1 5 3 6 2 4

The links I have about the diode don't give specfics, just say to remove it or reverse it. I've seen it mentioned on both the Link forums as well as by guys with DTA systems.

The below is mentioned on this page for a DTA computer: http://abloriginalparts.com/pb/wp_ecc43 ... 430d6.html
"Currently the vanos module needs 4 diodes removed, this is easy to do, and not at all challenging. A bypass for this is in the works, but not available yet. "

A search brought up the following (the factory computer is MSS54):
"Motec switches the ground to control the VANOS solenoids, while the Siemens MSS50 and MSS54 switch 12V. You will have to open up (i.e. cut into the potting compound) the VANOS electronics inside the solenoid unit, unsolder and reverse the polarity of the flyback voltage diodes to get it to work."


I'm not good with this kind of thing, so I don't know if reversing or removing makes more sense.

Brian
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by jsmcortina »

There's only one way to find out....

James
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by AbatelliCristian »

gisqc
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by gisqc »

You need to remove the diodes since you are driving the solenoid inverted versus the OEM setup.

Searches got me to think link from DTA which seems detailed. Page 11 on that PDF includes picture and some good wiring info for S54 vanos in general
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by jsmcortina »

I've made a code change that I _believe_ might detect the phase from the cams correctly. I haven't written a wheel mode for the JimStim to test it. The code is based on alpha6. Note that although the alpha6 code has an S54 decoder option it doesn't do anything, I only just wrote the code for it.

Wheel decoder = Toothed Wheel
Dual wheel + missing
60-2
tooth#1 = ?

VVT.
Exhaust -> primary cam. Set as 8 teeth.
Intake -> second cam. Set as 6 teeth.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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AbatelliCristian
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by AbatelliCristian »

Yesterday is arrived the High side driver for solenoid.. I complete the pcb and then I can test.

"Wheel decoder = Toothed Wheel
Dual wheel + missing
60-2
tooth#1 = ?" in 320-325 engine is 330° but in M engine I don't know. I check

James this engine have 4 solenoid 2 vvt. (one solenoid open end one closed...) In yuor code you have strategy for 4 solenoid or I can use generic pwm and select 50% duty for closed solenoid?
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by jsmcortina »

AbatelliCristian wrote:James this engine have 4 solenoid 2 vvt. (one solenoid open end one closed...) In yuor code you have strategy for 4 solenoid or I can use generic pwm and select 50% duty for closed solenoid?
Is it truly one opens and one closes or is it more like 3 wire idle where one runs 0-100% and the other runs 100-0% ?

Support isn't in the code yet, but once I'm clearer on the above point, I hope to add it.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by AbatelliCristian »

Yes, is 3 wire... (tipically idle 3 wire.... )
For moment I think I will use "generic out" and setting 50%duty for close.... and use PID for open...
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by jsmcortina »

AbatelliCristian wrote:Yes, is 3 wire... (tipically idle 3 wire.... )
OK, that sounds straightforward enough to implement.

James
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gisqc
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Re: S54 dual VANOS VVT

Post by gisqc »

Does the fact it's twice a 3 wire connection automaticly means it works like it? there are a pin for each solenoid pin and each pair of solenoids share a common ground.

Also means if it works like that it could be working with only 2 outputs and a little transistor, just like it can be done on 3 wire idle valves?
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