Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Testing and development of Megasquirt 3

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jsmcortina
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by jsmcortina »

The firmware already does CRC32 of the tuning data pages and TunerStudio already uses it to reduce load time. The firmware also allows CRC32 of program memory regions.

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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by gslender »

jsmcortina wrote:The firmware already does CRC32 of the tuning data pages and TunerStudio already uses it to reduce load time. The firmware also allows CRC32 of program memory regions.

James
I wouldn't have thought so from observed use - which firmware version and how specifically is it checking the CRC32 before loading the pages when first connecting?
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by jsmcortina »

gslender wrote:I wouldn't have thought so from observed use - which firmware version and how specifically is it checking the CRC32 before loading the pages when first connecting?
Well, you are wrong...

Do a comms debug log and have a look, TS sends a 'k' command to fetch the CRC. This has been in place for a couple of years now since the "newserial" changes. MS3 1.2.x upwards and MS2/Extra 3.3.x upwards.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 04&t=34277
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by piledriver »

In reality the simple "compare tune" feature in TS is probably functionally equivalent to what the checksum would provide, it would just be handy to also display an automatically generated and visible checksum that could be compared offline for verification/record keeping. (Even a caveman can use md5sum assuming they can type)

Trying to come up with something that would pass the legal "proof" or lock desires with minimal effort.
Always doing things the hard way, MS2 sequential w/ v1.01 mainboard, LS2 coils. 80 mile/day commuter status.
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by Manu »

gslender wrote: Another reason for simple password lock out for tune updates is some countries have a regulatory requirement that any ECU used for street use, that passes the emission controls (assuming it did) would also need to have a non-modifiable ECU/tune... so adding a password meets that requirement!
piledriver wrote:Trying to come up with something that would pass the legal "proof" or lock desires with minimal effort.
I'm afraid that MS is an after market ECU and as it's clearly write in the licence (http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/licenses.pdf), it CANNOT be use on a pollution controlled vehicle ! It also just cannot be use an any vehicle that use legal roads without a certain level of government approval.

In France it simply cannot be use on a vehicle who use normal roads. Only a race car can use it, and a race car can only run during a race or in specifics conditions. I assume that it's the same every where in the world. OEM cars are approved (or not) by the government and if you use it on open street this car must stay as it was approved ! If you change something you MUST make it approved again by government to have the right to use it on road. If you use it anyway without that new required approval, you're out of law. This is not an ECU password that will save you !

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Manu
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subwoofer
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by subwoofer »

I don't think you should have any problems with a pre-1988 vehicle, even in France? We have basically the same rules here.
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by piledriver »

Some locales only require that the vehicle actually pass the emissions test, but need to see some way to verify the ECU programming is locked, or perhaps an easy method verify the tune is the same would suffice.

Sadly I don't think "compare tunes" in TS would impress them, the "blessed" tune would need a reliable/simple ID method for record keeping, assuming they accept that at all.

Any password protection implementation is accepted?
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by gslender »

piledriver wrote:Some locales only require that the vehicle actually pass the emissions test, but need to see some way to verify the ECU programming is locked, or perhaps an easy method verify the tune is the same would suffice.

Sadly I don't think "compare tunes" in TS would impress them, the "blessed" tune would need a reliable/simple ID method for record keeping, assuming they accept that at all.

Any password protection implementation is accepted?
You are correct. In some countries, using any electronic fuel and spark control system is acceptable and the only requirement is that it is locked from adjustment. How it is locked isn't defined and it would be the subject of the vehicle testing engineer to review and obtain a degree of comfort. These people are mechanical engineers and rarely have any knowledge at all about computing - so a simple "please enter password" to continue that is verified in the ECU would probably be simple enough. Obviously if you are doing this it would be sensible to make it a little harder to break through, just to stop the casual person from tweaking when a tuner is trying to provide some degree of warranty for the tune.
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Manu
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by Manu »

subwoofer wrote:I don't think you should have any problems with a pre-1988 vehicle, even in France? We have basically the same rules here.
I'm sorry, but here we can't. Whatever you want to do, after a single MOD on a car you have to get an approval to use it on legal streets. Even if you want to change your break system for a better one...

If you change anything on your car, so your car is not as it was first approved from government when OEM show it, you're outlaw. There is no deal with that !

If you want to drive, you can. But if something wrong append you have to keep in mind that, even if you pay an insurance, you have no insurance. And because you are responsible for anything that happen you can lost a lot of money (and your house, and your wife, etc...).

So in France, if you have a moded car (or bike) and drive on road and get an accident, it's better for you that everyone is dead rather than just wounded. You should pay less...

That say, what is cool here is that when you tune a car there is no warranty for the customer. If a part brake you're not responsible of that... So we really don't need a password protection here. And of course good tuner doesn't brake motor ;-)
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jsmcortina
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by jsmcortina »

It might be worth starting a topic in the TunerStudio sub-forum about displaying the tune CRCs if that is of interest.

James
I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

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jasaircraft
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by jasaircraft »

France sucks! haha Come to Bolivia, you can see many things on the road, I still think we should have password protection, even if its easy to break it, it wont be for the majority...
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Re: Password protection (Rally Antilag anytime soon?)

Post by muyat »

result?
206GTi fully loaded, MS3/3X V3.0 Board Fully Sequential Ignition and Fuel
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