ashford wrote:so your saying i should get the rest of my needed parts to drop the motor in?
Lots of testing required yet.
Do you know what the maximum swing on the cams is? I'm a little concerned that the cam teeth are too close together with the way the decoder currently works. The teeth land on a 24 tooth pattern, so that's 30 crank degrees movement before the decoder will get confused.
ashford wrote:so your saying i should get the rest of my needed parts to drop the motor in?
Lots of testing required yet.
Do you know what the maximum swing on the cams is? I'm a little concerned that the cam teeth are too close together with the way the decoder currently works. The teeth land on a 24 tooth pattern, so that's 30 crank degrees movement before the decoder will get confused.
James
the intake can be advance 50 crank degrees
the exhaust can be retarded 50 crank degrees
ashford wrote:so your saying i should get the rest of my needed parts to drop the motor in?
Erm... if only.
Once you have the circuits built for all four cams drop me a PM or email. I have some newer code for you to try. (The engine doesn't need to be runnable, just cranking.)
VVT1 = intake
VVT2 = exhaust
VVT3 = intake
VVT4 = exhaust
The unusual tooth spacing and the range of the cams created a technical challenge. I have added special code for this VVT pattern. I am able to stim test the intake cam pattern, but not the exhaust presently. With my bench test, I'm getting a stable VVT1 angle and hopefully that will translate to the engine. The exhaust cam decoder needs more work.
I do wonder why Ford chose to put the cam pattern 180 degrees offset (which way?) from the intake. That complicates things more.
doing a bit of thinking on this. my other ms3 i have is already setup with a dual vr conditioner in the proto. i can repurpose this one for this engine as the car it is for is not running yet.
a quick question, is there another port on the mainboad that can be used? js10 is on the cam in list, can one of the others like js6-7-11 be used?
also i think that the hall sensors recieve 12v from the factory, but appeared to work on 5v. for testing purposes would it be ok to run one of the hall sensors directly to the input
Only the timer pins (PTTx) can be used. With VVT they are used to capture the precise interrupt time for angle processing.
Take a look at the MS3X schematics for PT4 and copy that for the other hall effect cam sensor. One of the intake cams with hall should be used as the primary cam. Hall sensors work from 0RPM, while VRs will might be too low a voltage at very low engine speeds.
i had been staring at the oem stuff for hours trying to figure it out as i couldnt find a howto or basic description on how these ecus operate then it finally "clicked" in my head. i don't have the time right now to write that essay but just a basic description
ther are 15 fuel and spark maps, which one used is dictated by cam position/mode. cam position is dictated by engine state- optimum power, fuel economy, stability , warmup or emissions reduction.
james sent me some test code that synced up and logged cam position, so i can start the conversion when all my parts arrive.
for the hardware side of things i built a dual vr circuit using an ncv1124, jeans dual vr should work nicely as well. this was built on the proto area of the mainboard.
vr 1 went to js10 and vr2 went to a disconnectable wire to pin 15 of the ms3 daughtercard jp2, this uses pt4 of the ms3xplug so make sure nothing is hooked to it externally.
for what edge to capture looke for a group of 3 teeth and take the last edge of that grouping. falling edge in my case, the other 3 are inverted from ms3x cam in my case. it can be checked by selecting js10 as cam input and taking a composite log.
i made a throttle body adaptor for it. i will be using a 85mm ls1 thorttlebody, works quite slick. i am gont to give a stepper iac a try on a ford since ive had much better luck with them on ls motors. i have a bunch of info on factory ford units and the 3 different varieties they have had, should probably post it up.
the last drag event was cancelled and i wanted one more run on the current engine, so august 30th will be the last time i run the 4.6 then i will start out the swap.
ive ran into a planning snag. the cam solenoids are 6 ohm and i don't have any available high current drivers on the ms3x there are the 2 injector drivers and fidle i could use but that is 3. another option i have is to use the spare quadspark i have but that would inver the signal from the low current outs and also needs a pullup.
would i be best off using the 2 injector channels less the driver, fidle and pull one off the ms3x to the proto area to make circuits to run the quad spark or would the 3 amp medium drivers be good enough being that is close to what they are rated for?
i have the 4.6 removed and was about to do wiring then this hit me
jsmcortina wrote:Do you mean that you've run out of outputs or that you don't think the MS3X mid-current outputs are up to it?
James
im questioning the liability of using the mid drivers. 100% duty cycle would be about 2.5 amps- really close to the rating. i only have 3 ms3x mid drivers left but i can reassign to something else if needed
i am using the mid drivers for now, if they give me fits i will change it out.
its so close now, just the coolong system, exhaust and 4 wire plug for the phasers. this is an uttery slow process when a good majority of parts have to be made, modified. made fuel rails, tb adaptor to bolt on ls style body, some bracketry, maf tube, and custom plug n play engine harness to plug into the existing engine bay harness.
i came close to just firing it up tonite without cooling system or phasers but decided against it.
it runs the engine is probably one of the smoothest i have seen, litterally can balance a pop bottle on the intake no ripples. exhaust vvt seems to work, intake angles are jumping all over. tried controlling the exhaust vvt but it changes afr so much it kills the motor with sudden movements, i need to get the maf up and working before i do any more with it. im too dam tired right now to get datalogs, will shoot for some tomorrow, finish the exhaust and give it a cruise.
i have the capture edges inverted on the intake sensors( i didnt know it would run that way) now all 4 are reporting sane angles.
holy muther martha does this engine pull at higher rpms, this thing would be on par with my 4.6 dohc at 4 lbs boost at the track.
the ugly
i have massive noise issues when i tried first controlling the vvt it would work for a few seconds then start running like crap, what keyed me off was that my tachometer quit and was getting garbled readings, if i just unplugged the phasers and not change anything in the tune it ran fine. so either noise corrupted ram or the phasers went out of range and the code panicked. i will try it some more tomorrow.
if my problems are electrical noise what are my options, flyback diode or install my extra quad spark to run the phasers.
this is so awesome!Post up some pictures of this setup. I would really love to see it. I've thought about a coyote setup also. I'm hoping they will soon be as cheap and readily available as the 4.6, 5.4 is.
You should be using flyback diodes on the solenoids. My VCT was uncontrollable until I put a diode across it. The PWM IAC valve was the same way. Your VCT Solenoids should be of similar or identical design to mine.
yeah i pushed diodes into the connectors to test it out and it cured my noise issue and made control a lot better. i have the exhaust working well, but the intake side of the decoder is not working right yet.
the right intake shows a nearly steady reading but retards ~8* with rpm, the left intake retards ~20 i tried swapping capture edge but made reading impossible throughing errors.
the engine is probably one of the smoothest i have seen, litterally can balance a pop bottle on the intake no ripples. exhaust vvt seems to work, intake angles are jumping all over. tried controlling the exhaust vvt but it changes afr so much it kills the motor with sudden movements, i need to get the maf up and working before i do any more with it. im too dam tired right now to get datalogs, will shoot for some tomorrow, finish the exhaust and give it a cruise.