Turbo ALS need Adjustment

[esso]

ive been using anti lag in a lot of cars using a lot of engine managements , and the megasquirt has been developed to compete with other ECUs
to enhance the feature i think some information need to be illustrated so people can develop the code.

As we know ALS uses a Kicker which all its job to kick the throttle wide open

image.jpg

as you can see this is the system which use kicker and solenoid and vacuum tank .
when ALS activate the solenoid make then tank filled with vacuum from the intake and allow the kicker to open the throttle
which allow more air to be inside the intake which makes turbo spool faster.
the purpose is to make the kicker all the time activated when in ALS mode which will always make the throttle stop at 30% or more , the problem is in ALS in Megasquirt when in ALS mode the kicker is activated and open the throttle but when it exceed the TPS limit the kicker go back to 0% and when the driver release the TPS the kicker kick in again but will not open the throttle again in time as it need to be prekicked once . as i see the on/off valve have to be opened all the time whatever ALS is in or off , just go off when car excede high temps clt or iat

here is a log for the ALS with a kicker

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gtajaadc08zfhsq/ALS.msl?dl=0

you will see status 2 is the ALS and the tps go 30% but when released it go back to as less as 10% whenit should stay to 30%

[jsmcortina]

How do you suggest this is changed?

Isn't this a user settings issue? Set the TPS% higher? Or mount the TPS on the pedal?

James

[esso]

i see you didnt get it i will try to do a scenario for you.

when anti lag enable switch is activated:

untill the pedal is under the maximum TPS the car go into ALS mode
and all the idle,on/off output,pwm output are enabled
but when the pedal exceed the maximum TPS the car start to go normal and all the other outputs go off
then when the pedal release and go below the maximum TPS all activated

what should be done is to let all the output (on) all the time even when the pedal exceed the maximum TPS during normal operation

because we need all the time the kicker to be (on) to let the throttle always open .
if the maximum TPS is set to 40%
then the kicker must set to make the TPS about 35%
so when the driver activate the ALS the car become 35%TPS on idle with boost about 120KPA ON IDLE
when he depress the pedal the car gowith boost but when he leave the pedal the kicker must be on all the time to let the TPS again on 35%.
what happen in the current firmware is when the driver press the pedal because the output go off the kicker go back to normal and when he release the pedal the output makes the kicker on again but not fast enough to make the pedal on 35% so it just stay on about 10 15% which is not enough it must be on all the time to maintain the 35%

[xrattiracer]

James,
I understand his problem, and its really not a user configuration thing. The problem with setting the max tps % higher is that controls all ALS parameters and not just the valve/kicker.
I use a separate air bypass valve so this specific issue isnt as big a deal for me. I havent had a lot of seat time with the ALS function yet, at least on a track but I suspect having the valve shutting off as the throttle increases will cause an abrupt change in engine output due to the throttle size effectively changing by that amount. I have had problems with obtaining a smooth transition from ALS to power and have spent a little time trying to tune it out, but had always assumed the valve stayed on the whole time. I cannot think of any negative effect from having the valve/kicker be on at all times ALS is active and not in an error condition (temperature or time limits).

[jsmcortina]

In esso's case though, TPS is controlling whether ALS is active, but he's using a throttle kicker that changes the TPS reading. How to resolve that?

James

[xrattiracer]

in that case i suspect it would work fine if he set his max tps to x amount above where the idle kicker opens it to. if the kicker stays activated then it will not have the problems he is having. those kickers typically do not actually open the throttle, but rather just prevent it from closing all the way once opened. if the throttle is released while the kicker is deactivated, the throttle will close faster than the kicker can activate.

[esso]

as i mentioned the kicker already set the TPS below the max TPS and it works fine , in my case the kicker set the TPS at 38% but my max tps is 42% , i need the kicker all the time to set the TPS 38%
but in this firmware the kicker at idle make the TPS 38% but when the car move and the driver press and release many times and the code make the output go off/on/off/on the kicker open and close open and close so it will not be able to set the throttle on 38% due to its slow response it only then make it to the low 10% which will make ALS not that aggressive .

to resolve this i believe the best practice is to make the on/of output to be on all the time ( and name it : Kicker Valve ) whenever the ALS is activated using the input , only go off if the CLT or IAT exceed the threshold like in link ECU they name it Antilag Solenoid and the max RPM threshold dont have any meaning that ALS is only activated through TPS and minimum RPM

i did a workaround is in programmable on/of i set the output to on when the (porteh(input) and 128) , so the output will be on all the time whenever the input is activated but the cons in this it will not be disabled if the IAT or the CLT is exceeded the threshold the car will just then go to the rev due to the kicker is on but ALS go off , must then switch the input off to shut down the kicker.
if still you cant see how it work i can make a video for you to show it live

[esso]

any news james?

[juansh2385]

IF you want that only coolant and air temp turn off you als as a work around for now just put 100 on tps max then the code will not turn off the output because of tps but it wiil for the other conditions.

[esso]

not possible because ALS engage spark cut through TPS

[jsmcortina]

Let me get it clear what you are asking for.

You want the "On/Off" output behaviour changed so that when:
Anti-lag feature is enabled
AND Anti-lag switch is on
AND TPS% < TPS limit
AND CLT < CLT max
then turn output On?

How about:
minimum CLT
min/max RPMs
maximum MAT ?

How about the idle-up control?

James

[esso]

the on off output behavior must be ON when:
ALS is enabled
ALS switch is on
and CLT>min
CLT<max
iat<max
rpm<max
rpm>min
only
whatever TPS% .
TPS only for activating ALS tables

[jsmcortina]

OK, that's clear.

What about the idle valve?

James

[xrattiracer]

idle valve, on/off/ and pwm outputs should be treated the same i would think.
there could be a config option to switch between the two modes, but i really cant think of why anyone would prefer the current operation over what is being proposed here.

[jsmcortina]

idle valve, on/off/ and pwm outputs should be treated the same i would think.

OK

there could be a config option to switch between the two modes, but i really cant think of why anyone would prefer the current operation over what is being proposed here.

As you guys are both telling me the same thing, I'm going to change the behaviour with no config option. (We already have lots of config options.)

James

[esso]

james,

when exactly we can have this fix , as i have a drift race withen week and many cars participated using ms pro
as this will be direct compete with link ecu in the egyptian market

[jsmcortina]

How should the bumper output operate in relation to the max ALS timer and suchlike? I've started working on the code and presently once the timer expires (ALS stops) the bumper turns off too.

I'm thinking from the previous comments that the bumper and idle-up should operate regardless of that timeout? Yes/No ?

EDIT: How about roving idle? Presently that is enabled when ALS is inactive (for any reason) irrespective of the enable switch.

James

[tpsretard2]

The throttle jack (bumper) shoukd turn off if the timer expires. If it doesn't you basically have a stuck open throttle. Coukd be dangerous (been there)

The roving idle is not really needed with jack throttle (bunper) the roving idle is used when you do not have a throttle jack and you just hold it open. That said it needs to be on anytime the code times out or again, you will basically have a stuck throttle.

[xrattiracer]

i never saw the point of the timer to begin with, but yeah the whole thing should disable if that timer is reached. same with other "error" conditions such as clt too high etc. basically there is a difference between als being inactive because you dont want it (fully) on and inactive because you dont want your engine to blow up.

[esso]

yes it should be disable when the ALS timer go out regard what if there roving idle or not