MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Testing and development of Megasquirt 3

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CSXRT4
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by CSXRT4 »

Im assuming the "boost control bias duty" tables are now in place of the "boost control initial duty" tables? I enabled flex blending and it doesn't seem to enable blending on this table, didn't know if that was a bug or just hasn't been coded yet?
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by jsmcortina »

CSXRT4 wrote:Im assuming the "boost control bias duty" tables are now in place of the "boost control initial duty" tables? I enabled flex blending and it doesn't seem to enable blending on this table, didn't know if that was a bug or just hasn't been coded yet?
The bias table isn't supposed to blend. The target duty table does.

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CSXRT4
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by CSXRT4 »

Will this be coded to blend in the future? A specific bias duty is important for a specific target boost right?
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by nathaninwa »

When blending boost target tables it uses bias table one as a look up. I'm blending boost by gear this way with no troubles at all.
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CSXRT4
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by CSXRT4 »

nathaninwa wrote:When blending boost target tables it uses bias table one as a look up. I'm blending boost by gear this way with no troubles at all.

It might work okay in your particular case but I can see it being an issue in others. For instance, if im running 8psi on pump gas and calibrate my bias table to be optimal for that, it will be way off if I am targeting 20psi on e85. This could result in slower spool up and possibly throw the PID haywire as the boost tables get blended towards the e85 maps. If I calibrate the bias for 20psi then it will likely overboost when on pump gas.
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by muythaibxr »

CSXRT4 wrote:
nathaninwa wrote:When blending boost target tables it uses bias table one as a look up. I'm blending boost by gear this way with no troubles at all.

It might work okay in your particular case but I can see it being an issue in others. For instance, if im running 8psi on pump gas and calibrate my bias table to be optimal for that, it will be way off if I am targeting 20psi on e85. This could result in slower spool up and possibly throw the PID haywire as the boost tables get blended towards the e85 maps. If I calibrate the bias for 20psi then it will likely overboost when on pump gas.
The bias table y axis is the target boost. If you cover all the possible targets for boost in the bias table, and blend on the target tables, you should get the right behavior in all cases.

Ken
Megasquirt is not for use on pollution controlled vehicles. Any advice I give is for off road use only.
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by CSXRT4 »

muythaibxr wrote:
CSXRT4 wrote:
nathaninwa wrote:When blending boost target tables it uses bias table one as a look up. I'm blending boost by gear this way with no troubles at all.

It might work okay in your particular case but I can see it being an issue in others. For instance, if im running 8psi on pump gas and calibrate my bias table to be optimal for that, it will be way off if I am targeting 20psi on e85. This could result in slower spool up and possibly throw the PID haywire as the boost tables get blended towards the e85 maps. If I calibrate the bias for 20psi then it will likely overboost when on pump gas.
The bias table y axis is the target boost. If you cover all the possible targets for boost in the bias table, and blend on the target tables, you should get the right behavior in all cases.

Ken

Ok I understand now, I was thinking that the bias table was just a renamed initial duty table. The only issue I could see with this is that duty sometimes needs to increase with RPM to maintain a constant target. But I guess PID should take care of that. Overall I like the new boost control scheme a lot better, good job guys :)
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by nathaninwa »

That the beauty of the bias table, select rpm points to do just that. I see an average increase of 5% duty cycle to flatline boost. Because of the delta value, you can start the table off with like 3500rpm and separate out every 500 if you wanted

Treat the bias table as an open loop table, and not much pid will be needed since all the values will be close
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CSXRT4
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by CSXRT4 »

Ok I see now.... again lol. For some reason I was thinking the bias table was 2D after Ken explained it. Thats pretty fancy then, thanks for the explanation.



Im not sure if this is the place to request this. But it would also be nice to have per gear boost targets variable over RPM and not just a set value. For instance, a normal 3D table with the Y-axis being gears 1-6 and the X-axis being RPM with cell values being boost targets.
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by muythaibxr »

it would more likely be 6 curves to avoid issues with interpolation, but it's something that can be considered. I'll at least check to see if there's enough flash space.

Ken
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by nathaninwa »

On that note, I do something very similiar. To keep the rods in my motor I have a 650wtq personal limit. I make that at 25psi, but also wanted boost by gear. This is where the blend table option became available to me after some explanation of how it works, now in third gear where the car can handle the tq, my boost target 260kpa iirc at 5600 where my peak tq, but in the 260 target row after peak tq, my boost target rises to over 300kpa to flatline that wtq. It works rather well and in the datalogs boost target increases as rpm rises, and because there was a trend in dc I was able to make some very close guess' and running in th setup mode things are very close
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by 525gte »

nathaninwa wrote:Scenario. Driving down the interstate, change alternate reqfuel from digital switched 3 to loop1, then program Loop1 to activate above 135kpa

Nothing worked, so I made it program to tps and used the greater and less than arrows with no change in fueling

Then something happened that we needed a key cycle and when we did, that when the loop1 feature starting working and for his car it was just the ticket

But still looking into this one on my end, during that key cycle change. (Which was a staged injection change and a 3 step likiter change) and we got a knock sensor pin error that would not let the car start from some programable output interfereance. Could not locate issue so we reloaded an earlier tune and all was better. We did have the pin error one more time but haven't had a chance to re trace our steps to see what change is causing the strange knock sensor error
in regards to this post. today I took a log of 1.4.10 with the 3 step error. it say 3 step on when it is actually off
I than switched to 1.4.3 and it works as it should

I triggered my 3 step switch 3 or 4 times in each log

I am using 12v switch in
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by Alfagta »

Hello James,

today i've played a Little bit with the vss finction.
I put a 5Hz (100ms high / 100ms low) square wave to PT2.
Whell Diameter is set to 1 the same with the sensor teeth.
VSS psotion is "wheel"
This config gives me a reading of 56 Kph.
But when i calculate this i get 18 Kph.
5Hz = 300 u/min = 300 m/min = 18000 m/h = 18 km/h.

I've attached mi actuall msq.
I'dont rellay now what is wrong with this config???

Thanks in advance
Alfa 156 GTA
Alfa 75 Race Car MS III -- alway latest FW
Alfa 164 V6 Turbo
Alfa 155 2,5TD RIP
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CSXRT4
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by CSXRT4 »

Alfagta wrote:Hello James,

today i've played a Little bit with the vss finction.
I put a 5Hz (100ms high / 100ms low) square wave to PT2.
Whell Diameter is set to 1 the same with the sensor teeth.
VSS psotion is "wheel"
This config gives me a reading of 56 Kph.
But when i calculate this i get 18 Kph.
5Hz = 300 u/min = 300 m/min = 18000 m/h = 18 km/h.

I've attached mi actuall msq.
I'dont rellay now what is wrong with this config???

Thanks in advance

5 pulses per second, one wheel rotation per pulse(1 sensor tooth). So 5 wheel rotations per second. Circumference is PI x Diameter, so 3.14 x 1meter = 3.14m per wheel rotation, times 5 for meters per second = 15.7. 15.7m/s = 56kph.

Also check your "preferred speed units" at the bottom right of the VSS window.
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by Alfagta »

CSXRT4 wrote:
5 pulses per second, one wheel rotation per pulse(1 sensor tooth). So 5 wheel rotations per second. Circumference is PI x Diameter, so 3.14 x 1meter = 3.14m per wheel rotation, times 5 for meters per second = 15.7. 15.7m/s = 56kph.

Also check your "preferred speed units" at the bottom right of the VSS window.
Man you did it!!!
I thought that i must fill in the circumference in the fild. But now with a closer look on it i saw that i must fill in the diamater...

Thank you
Alfa 156 GTA
Alfa 75 Race Car MS III -- alway latest FW
Alfa 164 V6 Turbo
Alfa 155 2,5TD RIP
Test MS II --always latest FW
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nismoautoxr
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Re: MS3 pre-1.4 beta 10 released

Post by nismoautoxr »

im now using this because I was curious how my LS1 would react to 0 seconds delay for orfc (after all of my other conditions were met). I am absolutely happy with this change. THe LS motor with its firing order and airflow characteristics on decel can be embarrassing with its backfires. having 0 for the delay after warmup for me is a transformation and elimination of this condition.
Ricky-
1995 Nissan 240sx, 403 LS strokerv8 N/A 6speed trans
MS3&MS3X v.3.0 PCB
42lb/hr Hi-Z inj.,230/232 @.050 on 114LSA cam
sequential fuel and sequential spark
LS3/LSA card MAF sensor
97 Mazda MX5
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.60 trim T4 Turbo at 15 PSI
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