air shifter control

[electronic]

Is there a way to have different ignition/fuel cut time gear dependent? For example 70ms cut time between 1st and 2nd gear, and 25ms cut time between 5th and 6th gear. Also timed ignition retard after each shift, lets say you're able to set ignition retard degree amount and taper time. For example..... for 1-2 shift delay 10ms, cut time 70ms, retard degree 10 deg, retard taper time 20ms.

[jsmcortina]

Different delays per gear is already an option.

Retard is not an option.

James

[electronic]

Would it be possible to add a timing retard and taper? It would get a lot more people interested in the ms with high powered cars and motorcycles.

[electronic]

Maybe possible to trigger knock control to retard timing.

[tpsretard2]

i have been using geartronics.

The ms system does not have enough control for a real sequential gearbox. problem is i do not have constant access to one, and all the gearbox's i run are way to expensive to just try something on (Xtrax, tractive and sadev). However if it is something the team wants to under take. i will be more than happy to help with stratigies and ideas.

[electronic]

I've got a ms2 with single kill time and if you set it just right for 1-2 shift, other gears it kills too much and the bike stands up on the rear wheel. I am fixing to double the power so just thinking ahead. I've got 5 spare transmissions and they're pretty easy to come by so far.

[electronic]

i have been using geartronics.

The ms system does not have enough control for a real sequential gearbox. problem is i do not have constant access to one, and all the gearbox's i run are way to expensive to just try something on (Xtrax, tractive and sadev). However if it is something the team wants to under take. i will be more than happy to help with stratigies and ideas.

I just looked them up and it mainly looks at the gear shift roller to know how long to kill the engine, which I can use since my engine has one stock. But it doesn't have after shift ignition retard function.

That's really the only thing stopping me from switching from ms2 to ms3.

[tpsretard2]

There are 2 ways to do this.

Closed loop witch looks at barrel position to figure out how logn to cut and when to cut, also if you need an ignition cut and ignition retard.

or a simple open loop strategy, which has a cut time for each gear. with a setting for how much retard and how fast to put it back in once passed an rpm threshold.

EG, the tractiv box in the starlet at 10,000 rpm needs about a 200ms cut time when going 1st to 2ns, but needs 35ms when going from 5th to 6th. All changes have a high level of retard with a ramp to normal to stop the loading of the dogs.

[electronic]

it's a pretty nice for the money really. I wonder why you could calculate the exact time for a kill time if you know the gearing and the rpm that you're killing the coils/injectors, you'd know exact spread between 2 gears, and when ecu sees the right rpm it would cut the ignition/fuel back on with pre set ignition retard.

[dontz125]

I was about to say something silly and confusing about the MS3 per-gear cut numbers, but realised in time that you can in fact have less cut for 5-6 than 1-2.

There is no doubt that you could sort something out for retard using knock; the problem then becomes that this is almost certainly utterly different from what you need for actual knock protection, you have to pick one or the other.

There is a fairly good possibility that you could sort something out for retard using the transmission controller code and a uS or MS2 DC, using the solenoid output of the MS3 to trigger the paddle shifter input of the TC. Careful thought would have to go into the .ini.

Naturally, any retard using either above method will be the same for every gear.

I continue to be surprised by the issues surrounding this issue; straight ignition-cut shifters have been used on track bikes and draggers for 30-40 years. I guess I'm just used to my little TZs and FZRs ...

Perhaps if enough of you HP jockeys make enough noise, James might feel inspired to make a manual transmission version (per-gear cut and retard etc) of the TC firmware?

[tpsretard2]

straight ignition cut systems have been used for years. but it kills the dog's from banging them into each other.

The control system that is there right now just does not work well for a manual sequential box.

[electronic]

I guess I'll wait till ignition retard is implemented in the firmware.

[dontz125]

Are you currently using the spark map swap function? If the solenoid output triggered the map swap input, you could retard the spark as desired. Note that the solenoid output can stay on after the spark is returned; it would be rather pointless to have the retard only kick in while the spark was cut!

If you are already using the spark map swap, another option might be the Fuel Overrun function; somehow I doubt track bikes or drag bikes use this feature much! Turn all the timers off in TS, set the Ignition Timing During Overrun as desired; you'll need to change the 'Cut Transition Time' in the .ini to allow a minimum of 0.0 sec. This is less flexible than the spark map swap, with only a single fixed spark timing value.

In either case, an adapter circuit will need to be built, with a transistor that grounds out either the desired map swap pin or the TPS signal. A small N-channel Mosfet would probably be best; as this is an internal circuit, no guard diodes or limiting resistors are needed. It may be found that a pull-up resistor is needed for the swap option, although the processor has its own internal pull-ups on the various input pins. Adding a pull-up to the TPS pin would be silly.

[electronic]

I was thinking of using a knock sensor input since I am not using it. It would seem like a perfect solution.