MS3 pre-1.5.1 beta 1 firmware released

[David_G]

Hm, thought I already did that
And I did'nt have this problem with v1.5.0 with settings being unchanged after the firmware update...?

[aidandj]

David_G, you need to tune engine states.

I feel like I've asked this before, but is there a good sticky for how to tune engine states? I like the indicators in the menu, but maybe a "how-to" with examples of what should be activating each state.

[ridethecliche]

Main changes since 1.5.0 release firmware

Bug fixes:
Correct ini scaling error on fuel pressure for bar and psi.
Fix an engine states issue interacting with idle where once you're in CL idle, you don't come out of it until the throttle is pressed.
Variable tacho gave wrong config error.
Fix for overrun fuel cut to respect the RPMDot-based RPM limits for turning fuel back on.
Fix "Communications Established" message popping up.

Would the bolded above cause an issue with the RPM jumping up to 3k as one gets off the throttle because it thinks its entering CL-idle?

[muythaibxr]

The old behavior might have hidden poor engine states tuning yeah.

[David_G]

But 1.5.0 already has the engine states. I tuned them and starting the engine never gave me such problems.
But I will check the settings again just to be sure.

Having a better explanation for tuning engine states would surely be helpful!

[whittlebeast]

I think I heard that the programmers were tweaking Engine States logic on this Beta release.

I would love to see Hard Accel have the ability to add an added amount of fuel. We would have to play with the logic to get this right. Motec does this.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/MLVDemo/800%20Mo ... d%20PW.png

If we go this sort of direction with engine states, we would need to start a new thread.

[aidandj]

Does this sound correct for engine states?

Fast acceleration threshold: Some low gear, step on the throttle. Pick the lowest(?) RPMdot while accelerating. Set the fast acceleration threshold just below that?

Slow acceleration threshold: Datalog idle and see what the highest RPMdot is during idle. Add and remove loads to get rpm changes. Set to just above the highest RPMdot at idle

Fast deceleration threshold: Rev high in neutral and let it drop back to idle. Set it slightly above the highest RPMdot from that test.

Slow deceleration threshold: Same as Slow acceleration threshold, but with negative RPMdot

TPS: Pretty self explanatory, value when tps is closed, and when full throttle

Overrun Map Threshold: Rev up high in gear and coast down. Find the highest map value while coasting down and set it right above that.

[muythaibxr]

All looks fine aside from overrun MAP. That should be set as high as possible, I usually use a MAP value just under the lowest MAP I see on idle.

[David_G]

I had a look at my engine state settings, and yes 'muythaibxr' , you are right, I still need to tweek my settings a bit.
I widened up my slow accel/deccel RPMdot a bit and also slightly lowered the MAP threshold from 28.0 to 27.5. This should help the CL-Idle engagement to be more consistent.

But that does'nt explain or change anything of the above Idle valve behaviour, does it?
The "crank to run taper" still does not respond to the altered values and I also still don't understand the rapid increase of the Idle valve pwm for about 0.9s directly after 'Cranking' is finished. Where does that increase come from? I've gone through each Idle valve setting, trying to explain to myself how this high value is calculated...but it just does'nt add up correctly.

[muythaibxr]

I don't have access to a computer where I can look at logs for the next 1.5 weeks or so, I'll have to look when I do.

[ashford]

i have a bug to report, or several of them regarding flex fuel. i was not using e85 but pure ethanol instead for testing, i don't think e85 would cause this problem. also this is the cheapest way to get it it is $1.40 a gallon if you buy more than 250 gallons. btw this is my first time setting up a flex sensor and confused the snot out of me with it not working how i thought it should.

first if fuel sensor reaches the max inputed frequency ie default 150hz it goes to 100% e85 fuel correction or 0% ethanol(failed sensor sensing?) so i had to increase that setting to 155hz so it wouldn't do that it, also reported about 97% ethnol this way, but keeps it from dropping out if there is jitter.
now i had the sensor working i dumped the fuel out and replace it with 3 gallons pump gas. i set it up so that flex is a basic multiplier( single fuel table) and flex blending under dual fuel for afr and spark tables then set required fuel for gasoline. i check the flex and it has defaulted to 100% correction again, turns out i had to lower the frequency for gasoline, i adjusted it till it reports 12% ethanol which is about what it should be.

now the second issue. i then go out and tune the car till it runs good. i get back to the shop and drain the fuel again than put back in about 4 gallons of ethanol. start it up and let it run a bit, 92% this time on the gauge, then go out to tune it in a bit. it was running a bit lean so i increased the high fuel multiplier and it ran like crap lean. i see the e85 fuel correction gauge go to low 100's wtf. this is where i stated dataloging. i increased the hi frequency thinking it went out of range again but ethnol content was below 100. i had the driver pull over and i started playing with the fuel multiplier. this is where i see a bug lying, when increasing the fuel multiplier to the point when the "e85 fuel correction" gauge gets above 154% it resets to 100 then increases from there again at 321 in the log is where is reset to 100 with a 161or 162 in "fuel multiplier%" box i increased it more and "e85 fuel correction" climbed again from 100% to 154% again to 100%. for reference a 339 in the log i was above 220% under fuel multiplier%. so from 320 to 339 in the log was me repeadedly tapping the increase button on the "fuel multiplier%" box from 162 to lower 200's. i then set the fuel multiplier to the setting that got me the highest fuel correction and drove to the shop, along the way a bit of jitter caused correction to go to 100% a few times

2017-04-22_14.42.24.msl.zip

i get back to the shop and then set up up the older way i set corrections to 100% and do a secondary fuel blend method. then secondary spark tables. tune ve2 for pure ethanol and it seem to work fine this way. i tried the flex blend in dual fuel for afr and spark but that made 4 fuel tables pop up so thats why i did secondary fuel and spark.
i don't have the msq to match the log but i have it for the end of the day

[jsmcortina]

I'll have a look at your data later. Most of the code there is unchanged for many years.

The modifiers on that page date from MS2/BG, the flex blending was new in an MS3 release and is the preferred method.

James

[AbatelliCristian]

Hi guys, I test 1.5.1 . All ok.
The ECU RESET is very nice for Bluetooth connection. It no work if tune generate error config.


Regards
Cristian

[jsmcortina]

Hi guys, I test 1.5.1 . All ok.
The ECU RESET ..[snip].. no work if tune generate error config.

Good catch.

James

[AbatelliCristian]

James, the top would be a single button (stop engine and reset ecu) in toolbar (with security, able only if I press "ctrl") or simply ctrl+key.
But already, it's a good function for me.

Regards
Cristian

[David_G]

I found out something new about my issue above...very strange

I made a few changes to some settings:
-engine states: higher slow accel setting, lower (more negative) slow deccel setting, a bit lower MAP threshold
-changed to COPs and full sequential ignition, knock control per cylinder, changed the knock threshold slightly, changed the knock windows settings
-turned OFF CAN Ego smoothing (makes EGO fluctuating wildly from full lean to full rich during full-lean conditions -- see here: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 30#p499730)
-turned OFF 'Ignore MAT correction during ASE'

Here comes the strange part:
Crank to Run taper time is responding correctly to made inputs again and also the Idle valve reaction is normal again (Idle PWM tapering down instead of a sudden switch to a very low value).

I then reverted back to the old tune, I also posted above (just changed the ignition to 'Coil on Plug' to make it work with the new COPs) and the idle valve is still responding correctly.
I don't know what happened but since making those changes to my tune, it is just working again...

Still, it would be great if you could look at my datalogs and tune file, maybe you can find an explanation.
Also there seems to be some 'Afterstart Idle valve duty', activated directly after Cranking mode has ended with a higher duty than the Cranking value or the 'Closed Loop Initial duty values'. The Idle valve then tapers down from that 'Afterstart idle valve duty" to the 'CL initial duty value'. I guess this is done on purpose but exaclty where is this afterstart idle duty coming from? How is that calculated? I can't find anything about that in the docs...

And I found something else:
I have an oil temp-, oil pressure-, and fuel pressure-sensor set as generic sensors1-3.
I also wanted to activate the 'DEBUG data' in the knock sensor settings for per-cylinder knock control. I misunderstood the description for that feature and only realized that my settings were not working after those 3 physical sensors fluctuated wildly. I also did not get a config error to show me I've done something wrong. I understand now, that there will be used as many sensor variables as there are cylinder to detect knock for. So in my case (4 cyl) I will have to use sensors 5-8 for physical sensors in case the 'DEBUG data' feature is enabled.
At least to me, this wasn't clear in the first place, so maybe you could make it more clear in the 'DEBUG data' description wich sensors-variables will be used by this feature and that one is not allowed to have these sensor variables occupied by physical sensors.
Also some kind of warning would be great if one mistakenly made the wrong settings.

[emanuelgancedo]

Hi, its possible add a button to set a BURN MODE, only push this button and dissable control traction, set a boost desired to burn, etc???
Sorry for mi english, im from Argentina.

[whittlebeast]

If you guys are thinking about new features, that may be best handled on a new thread. These new beta release threads normally are reserved for trying to find new code bugs that often arise.

[aidandj]

Something odd is going on. Idle engages, then waits the 3 seconds I have set for taper. Then immediately drops to the minimum idle valve amount. On closed loop basic, or on closed loop advanced, with a few different PID settings. sometimes it works, sometimes it just drops to the minimum.

Tune and log attached

[David_G]

Seems like the exact same issue, that I had (or still have?)
Glad I'm not the only one with this.