2002 Jeep wrangler engine not starting on ms3+x

[dochka]

Hi,
I'm getting difficulties starting a 2002 jeep engine (inline 6, 4.0L) with ms3 +ms3x;
This engine has the same flywheel as the jeep 2002 (66-2-2-2), while cranking there's no injector pulse and no ignition...
It reads rpm but there's sync loss, if i use the output test mode, i can fire the injectors one by one , but they don't squirt while cranking...
There's no ignition at all... This engine has wasted spark 3 coils built into one long cradle along the engine...
Here's some datalogs if someone can help;

Thank you

[jsmcortina]

The composite log is empty.
Please take a longer log that includes data and also attach your MSQ.

James

[dochka]

The composite log is empty.
Please take a longer log that includes data and also attach your MSQ.

James

[jsmcortina]

The composite log is still empty.

James

[dochka]

The composite log is still empty.

James

Any ideas why?
Seems it doesn't read the trigger maybe ???

[jsmcortina]

Did you see anything on the screen while taking the log?

The 66-2-2-2 pattern is supported under "44-2-2" you have "Jeep 2002" selected which is an entirely different wheel pattern.

James

[dochka]

Did you see anything on the screen while taking the log?

The 66-2-2-2 pattern is supported under "44-2-2" you have "Jeep 2002" selected which is an entirely different wheel pattern.

James

I tried the Renix 44-2-2 also, still the same...
No I didn't see anything on the composite log screen ..

[jsmcortina]

The RPM briefly showing up in the datalog suggests that you are getting some kind of signal on the tach input. Sounds like perhaps you have having problems using the composite logger. Remove spark plugs and keep cranking until something shows up.

James

[dochka]

The RPM briefly showing up in the datalog suggests that you are getting some kind of signal on the tach input. Sounds like perhaps you have having problems using the composite logger. Remove spark plugs and keep cranking until something shows up.

James

I did, no spark at all :oops:Could it be the spots? Need to be dialed in ?

[jsmcortina]

Please do what I suggested.

James

[dochka]

Please do what I suggested.

James

Okay

[dochka]

Please do what I suggested.

James

Using Renix 44-2-2 trigger in the ignition options

[jsmcortina]

That composite log you posted looks like it is actually NGC not Renix or Jeep2002.

I don't think that the phasing data has been confirmed for 6 cyl NGC, so try it with caution. If you can get sync, be sure to strobe the timing with the plugs out and injectors unpowered.

James

[dochka]

That composite log you posted looks like it is actually NGC not Renix or Jeep2002.

I don't think that the phasing data has been confirmed for 6 cyl NGC, so try it with caution. If you can get sync, be sure to strobe the timing with the plugs out and injectors unpowered.

James

I wired a Mitsubishi Pajero ignition box which has 3 built-in ignitors and tested the spark outputs under output test mode and the spark plugs fire like they should;
What you mean by NGC? I noticed the 16teeth patterns in the composite logger and though what the heck is that, also the cam input is strange...
What you suggest i do?
Replace the flywheel to a jeep 2002 model or Renix? Or adjust the pots?

Thank you

[jsmcortina]

What you suggest i do?

Select "36-2+2" ignition mode. (That's NGC)

James

[dochka]

What you suggest i do?

Select "36-2+2" ignition mode. (That's NGC)

James

Great, sync loss issue is solved! I get a steady cranking RPM ; But the engine doesn't start, i get backfires while cranking, I think it's an ignition timing issue maybe ??
I wired coil A to cyl n 1 and 6 , Coil B to 2 and 5 and Coil C to 3 & 4 and tested them under the output testing mode and they work ok, same for injectors;
The problem with this engine is that there's no timing marks on the crank pulley...
I tried trigger angle/offset to +-20deg with nothing changing...
Any ideas ?

[slow_hemi6]

You could use a piston stop and find TDC. Then mark TDC on the balancer or pulley. A temporary pointer can always be made out of a piece of hanger wire held by any nearby bolt.

[dochka]

You could use a piston stop and find TDC. Then mark TDC on the balancer or pulley. A temporary pointer can always be made out of a piece of hanger wire held by any nearby bolt.

I checked the crank pulley again and found that it has two marks...
I checked the timing with a strobe and found it to be way off while cranking...
How to adjust the timing offset with the NGC ( 36-2+2) mode to bring it to 10 deg btdc ?

Thank you

[dochka]

What you suggest i do?

Select "36-2+2" ignition mode. (That's NGC)

James

Engine started ! Running very badly and misfiring , backfiring, shaking itself to death
Problem was that while cranking, and checking ignition timing with a strobe on spark n1 , ignition was 120deg btdc;
If i use output test mode and fire coil A it'll fire the first coil i.e cyl n1 and n6'

I switched the OC1 and OC2 output wires in the ignitor box and cranked the engine while strobing on cyl n1 and the timing is now spot on 10 deg btdc, but if i use output test mode and fire coilA , the 2nd coil will fire, i.e cyl 2 and 5...
I tried switching Coil A and Coil B wires from the ms3x card to the Ignitor box, but I get the same dilemma...

[dochka]

What you suggest i do?

Select "36-2+2" ignition mode. (That's NGC)

James

Is there a way to run this engine on Megasquirt...
If I arrange the ignitor box to spark correctly on coil test mode, the timing will be 120 deg advanced on cyl n1 while cranking..
If I arrange the wires so that I get correct timing with the strobe on cranking, the engine beats itself and misfires, if i use coil output test mode coil A fires cal n2 and 5...
But when cranking it fires cyl n1 correctly but whatever i do , engine won't start...

I wanna know if i use individual cop's will it start?
Any solution to this problem ?
Thank you