MS3 w/ MS3X found Timing Still wont start!!!!

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:11 pm

like this????

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:00 pm

thats the way i installed mine... but because of locating the sensor, it looks exactly like this... no difference. my sensor is mounted at 3 o'clock and my gap is at 6 o'clock...

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:12 pm

well count the gaps in the teeth from the sensor to the missing gap the way the engine rotates if its exactly the same as the picture (sensor place and missing tooth gap) that will mean your tooth1 angle should be 80*, now enter that angle get the strobe light set the timing to fixed 0* and confirm it, the timing mark on the damper should align when the spark fires.

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:00 pm

grom_e30 wrote:well count the gaps in the teeth from the sensor to the missing gap the way the engine rotates if its exactly the same as the picture (sensor place and missing tooth gap) that will mean your tooth1 angle should be 80*, now enter that angle get the strobe light set the timing to fixed 0* and confirm it, the timing mark on the damper should align when the spark fires.

thats what i had at first... 80* on TunerStudio and tryed cranking without any spark... kept advancing spark until i got good strobe and thats at 170* on TS... (every 10* i cycled the MS ECU)... THIS IS MY FRUSTRATION IM TALKING ABOUT...

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:07 pm

well if thats where the the sensor and gap is, then the tooth1 should be 80. you change the number and the spark will happen at the incorrect time.

so you are saying with it at 80 there is no spark??

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:12 pm

grom_e30 wrote:well if thats where the the sensor and gap is, then the tooth1 should be 80. you change the number and the spark will happen at the incorrect time.

so you are saying with it at 80 there is no spark??

Yeah.... its really weird. I don't even know why I'm getting great spark at 170° to the point that my timing marks line up. ....

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:21 pm

may be a silly question but the timing light was connected to cylinder1?

so do the timing marks line up at 170* if you set the gun to 0*

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:15 pm

grom_e30 wrote:may be a silly question but the timing light was connected to cylinder1?

so do the timing marks line up at 170* if you set the gun to 0*

cyln.1 yes
And 170° the OEM timing marks line up with 0 on the timing cover and with the gun set at 0°... this is what's baffling me... but with the timing at 170° it still won't start. ... it sounds like it's firing at BDC rather then TDC...

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:53 pm

bdc would be 180* out though, thats strange.

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:10 pm

grom_e30 wrote:bdc would be 180* out though, thats strange.

I FOUND MY PROBLEM!

Im sooooo stupid for this mistake.....

what i did was a NOOB mistake... so it turns out my TDC was wrong !!!! i, for some reason, marked my timing mark (at 9 0'clock on picture) as TDC... which is wrong... the real TDC is whats at 12 0'clock on the pic.... well this puts everything waaaaay off! the good thing is is that my trigger wheel is bolted to my damper pulley... i just have to line up to the REAL TDC and set it at 80* BTDC on the settings, check with timing light and should be good to go!

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:16 pm

grom_e30 wrote:bdc would be 180* out though, thats strange.

Thanks alot for your help... when i saw your picture of the 36-1 trigger wheel, i saw the magic words.... "TDC on Damper" then it struck me.... HOLY s*** I TOOK THE WRONG TIMING MARK!!!!!!

Thanks again... without that pic, I wouldn't of thought of it at all!

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:17 pm

I don't really have to remove the trigger wheel. .. because at 80° where I was suppose to be at I added 90° advance timing which is why I was able to see good spark at 170°... only problem is that I'm at BDC at 170°... Therefore of you look at the picture I would have to take the factory setting of 80° on TunerStudio and retard the timing -90°... (90°- 80°= -10° or 350° on a circle) so I just have to input 350° and it should fire right up...

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:05 am

yeah that sounds like it, id retest with the new tooth1# again with fixed timing, but checking using the correct tdc mark.

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:42 am

grom_e30 wrote:yeah that sounds like it, id retest with the new tooth1# again with fixed timing, but checking using the correct tdc mark.

Yes absolutely... thanks again!

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:35 am

UPDATE...

car starts up now... but the factory setting of 80* wasn't good... i had to advance it 55*! Is this normal??

and when i give it throttle, it just wants to die out and i get sync loss

i put up some of my data logs... and i have trigger signal which is nice, but when i push down on the throttle, i saw my trigger reading went off... im obviously doing something wrong... AGAIN.

grom_e30 · Post by **grom_e30** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:14 am

by the looks of it its failing to see the teeth, if you look at page 34 of the tooth log you see the extra long bars, could try adjusting the trim pots on the main board.

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:10 am

grom_e30 wrote:by the looks of it its failing to see the teeth, if you look at page 34 of the tooth log you see the extra long bars, could try adjusting the trim pots on the main board.

d*** it.... of course! ill give that a try... never crossed my mind....

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:14 am

grom_e30 wrote:by the looks of it its failing to see the teeth, if you look at page 34 of the tooth log you see the extra long bars, could try adjusting the trim pots on the main board.

ok quick question, can i adjust the trim pots WHILE the engine is running? or is it not suggested? i couldnt find it written anywhere that it SHOULDN'T be done....?

kjones6039 · Post by **kjones6039** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:26 am

toonz wrote:can i adjust the trim pots WHILE the engine is running?

The short answer is.... yes!

Ken

toonz · Post by **toonz** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:57 am

kjones6039 wrote:
toonz wrote:can i adjust the trim pots WHILE the engine is running?
The short answer is.... yes!

Ken

Awesome. ... thanks, I'll post up my results. ..

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MS3 w/ MS3X found Timing Still wont start!!!!

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Re: MS3 w/ MS3X found Timing Still wont start!!!!

Re: MS3 w/ MS3X found Timing Still wont start!!!!

Re: MS3 w/ MS3X found Timing Still wont start!!!!

Re: MS3 w/ MS3X found Timing Still wont start!!!!

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