Staged upstream injector tuning

[brianj5600]

I am finally getting serious about getting my car back on the road. It is a non intercooled turbo 351w on E85. I want to mount one 120lb injector on each side of the plenum angled at the back of the throttle body. I already have injector holders and Holley 120s.

I have seen others using Holley EFI run upstream injectors staged at 100% duty cycle with out any trouble. Before I start cutting and welding I want to make sure I can configure the software for this. I have played with the software, but can't see how to set it up. I PMed one person on Yellow Bullet and he was not running MS3 and he didn't seem willing to help.

I want to run 8x120lb injectors sequentially off the 3x and 2x120lb off of the main board. My original plan was to list primaries as 1260cc and secondaries as 315cc, but that is as far as I got. I can not find a way to get secondaries at 100%.

Is there a solid method of tuning to achieve this?
When running staged, which injectors would be responsible for EGO correction?
Would I still be able to trim fuel per cylinder?

[nathaninwa]

What's the idea with going full dc on the 2 injectors? Versus staging in and matching pw? If you needed all the fuel the 10 injectors provide, running them together would provide the same fuel amount when all in, and the ve table wouldn't be wonky either

Yes you'll have chclinder trim on the primaries

[brianj5600]

I want the cooling of 100% dc. How do people tune around meth injection? One guy on the turbo forum claimed running over 30% of his fueling through methanol injection.

[jamies]

i have done similar on a few vehicles, but a few injectors on top of a supercharger for cooling as well as multipoint injection.
the biggest thing you need to be concerned about is a plenum full of fuel,.. it can go bang.

tune the engine completely on the 8 port injectors, dont rely on you additional injectors to supply primary fuel...

use your ms3x outputs for the 8 port injectors
use the inj1 /2 output for the additional injectors
go to table choices, dual fuel
on the right set dual fuel enable on
secondary outputs = use v3
secondary v3 use simultaneous or altrnating depends how u wire and setup the additional injectos
then tune fuel table 3 to operate the secondary injectors

have zeros in the first few low rpm columns to stop fueling at idle and just above idle to keep the fuel out of the intake at idle or at shutdown
really you only need the additional fuel at high load so the majority of the table can be zero'd out

but if your intake temps are reasonable and your port injecting e85 the cylinder fill temps wont be all that hot, i dont really think you will need the additional injectors unless you have a power adder heating the intake charge....

[nathaninwa]

I want the cooling of 100% dc. How do people tune around meth injection? One guy on the turbo forum claimed running over 30% of his fueling through methanol injection.

It's like staged injection, you ramp in meth kinda slow as fuel is starting to run out, or it gets ramped in over time and at that point the ve table will be flat. I see tuning issues with going full spray

I had forgotten about using ve3 under dual fuel for staging as suggested. I use the standard staging tab and use the table feature to blend in, very smooth. I stage full over to a second set that's running race gas and have it pretty dialed

My new project isn't staging fully but will match pulse width, that way there is only one table to tune. If your running e85 in the second setup as well, maybe stage well into boost, there is a dc feature, or even a map feature so you know air flow will be up before injecting

[Laminar]

i dont really think you will need the additional injectors unless you have a power adder heating the intake charge....

Like a non-intercooled turbo?

[brianj5600]

I don't have my laptop at work so it will be later before I fully understand. I fully expect temps over 250f.

[brianj5600]

tune the engine completely on the 8 port injectors, dont rely on you additional injectors to supply primary fuel...

use your ms3x outputs for the 8 port injectors
use the inj1 /2 output for the additional injectors
go to table choices, dual fuel
on the right set dual fuel enable on
secondary outputs = use v3
secondary v3 use simultaneous or altrnating depends how u wire and setup the additional injectos
then tune fuel table 3 to operate the secondary injectors

have zeros in the first few low rpm columns to stop fueling at idle and just above idle to keep the fuel out of the intake at idle or at shutdown
really you only need the additional fuel at high load so the majority of the table can be zero'd out.

So on table 3 just playing around I have all cells below 156 kpa and below 4000 rpm set at 0. Above those cells copy the table 1 values and scale by 0.1 to give me 10% of fueling to the secondaries. Primaries will cut fuel by the same amount to give the same A/F?

I can keep increasing table 3 to get the secondaries to the DC I want?

Are the primaries or secondaries responsible for EGO correction?

Since there are 8 primaries and only 2 secondaries am I correct in listing the primaries as 1260cc and secondaries as 315cc even though they are all 120s?

[nathaninwa]

When using dual table mode I don't see a place to tell it injector sizing like when using staged injection

Your math is right, but the fueling ve above 150 is for 8 injectors so I'm thinking .1 won't be 10% but more like 2% maybe?

And look on ego control, you get to specify what sensor to use but can't turn it off, so all 10 wil get controlled equally

Or maybe I'm missing something in dual table mode?

[brianj5600]

When using dual table mode I don't see a place to tell it injector sizing like when using staged injection

I guess it looks at the "staged injection" menu.

Your math is right, but the fueling ve above 150 is for 8 injectors so I'm thinking .1 won't be 10% but more like 2% maybe?

Good catch, 2.5%

And look on ego control, you get to specify what sensor to use but can't turn it off, so all 10 wil get controlled equally

I see that now. Thank for sharing your knowledge.