wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby MegaMicra » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:31 am

I'd start with the 10k and work down from there.

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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby nathaninwa » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:09 am

I skimmed through the posts here and thought I would share my vr issues and fix

This is on a 2jz with Pro gen1. I had serious sync loss at cranking rpm. My fix was this and ended up being done on both cam and crank wires. I run a 10k inline on the vr+, there is a 1k shunted (or ran across vr+ and -) and my vr - is tied to sensor ground

Cranks fine and runs clean to 8500rpm. This also worked well on a 1jz but that install did not like the shunt wire on the cam
Volvo 940, 2jzgte, MS3Pro, 815/692 @ 27psi.
240z, LS3 MS3pro/micro I/O 8.28@173
86 454/4l80e, ms3pro/micro. Tow rig
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby Valeriy » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:26 pm

nathaninwa wrote:I skimmed through the posts here and thought I would share my vr issues and fix

This is on a 2jz with Pro gen1. I had serious sync loss at cranking rpm. My fix was this and ended up being done on both cam and crank wires. I run a 10k inline on the vr+, there is a 1k shunted (or ran across vr+ and -) and my vr - is tied to sensor ground

Cranks fine and runs clean to 8500rpm. This also worked well on a 1jz but that install did not like the shunt wire on the cam


Hi nathaninwa ! Sorry to bother you! Can you give me your settings of MSD tune file from your car Volvo 940, 2jzgte, MS3Pro, 815/692 @ 27psi. ? I really need to get a correctly tuned file for my project for study . Thank you !
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby wndrllama103 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:23 am

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Hopefully I can get some time to try these out before the season ends!
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby MegaMicra » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:09 pm

Also, I'm sure you haven't but on my bosch vr sensor I had it wired backwards. I'd wrongly assumed the white wire from the sensor was vr+ and the black wire was vr-. It turned out it was the other way round. I swapped them and also changed the ignition capture setting and voila I had no sync losses.

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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby wndrllama103 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:16 pm

MegaMicra wrote:Also, I'm sure you haven't but on my bosch vr sensor I had it wired backwards. I'd wrongly assumed the white wire from the sensor was vr+ and the black wire was vr-. It turned out it was the other way round. I swapped them and also changed the ignition capture setting and voila I had no sync losses.

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I have different colors on my VW harness. Hopefully I have this correct.
CKP+ (white) to Pin1 (black)
CKP- (black) to Pin2 (blue)
gnd to Pin3 (gray)

I had it revving to 5400rpm at one point; I'm guessing (hoping) if I had it wired backward it wouldn't have been as good as it was/is.
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby MegaMicra » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:27 am

Pin 1 with bosch is usually vr+, or ckp+ depending how it's annotated so I'm sure it's OK. I just wanted to make sure that's all.

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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby vw_chuck » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:02 am

I would without a doubt run a resistor plug. On my 1.8t I get all sorts of problems even with the stock ECU with non resistor plugs making massive EMI. I would definitely run a resistor plug for starters. I run a Bosch FR5DTC plug. Works awesome.
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby wndrllama103 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:20 pm

vw_chuck wrote:I would without a doubt run a resistor plug. On my 1.8t I get all sorts of problems even with the stock ECU with non resistor plugs making massive EMI. I would definitely run a resistor plug for starters. I run a Bosch FR5DTC plug. Works awesome.


I'm running pretty new OEM plugs. Are the OEM plugs non-resistor type?
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby wndrllama103 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:31 pm

I finally got some time to tried some of the different suggestions tonight

to recap, what I've tried so far:
- running new plug + bosch sensor
- 10K parallel
- at one point, I had this up to 5500rpm with the old plug
- with the new plug, 10K was 3400rpm
- now that I'm typing this, I think that I may have had the copper tape coming up over the base of the old plug
- 20K parallel - 3400rpm
- 1K parallel - no sync at crank
- 1K parallel , 10K resistor inline (CKP+, on the plug side of the 1K) - no sync at crank
- 10K inline - no sync at crank
- 10K parallel, with swap CKP +/- - 4500rpm
- 2.2K parallel with swap CKP +/- - 4000rpm

The last two (swapping CKP +/-) was just for s&g. I didn't make any tune changes. I'm surprised it worked. Could this be a sign that something is wrong in my config?
I also forgot to mention that I have a cam fault. Not sure what's going on there.

I was really hoping to get a little more mileage on the car this year, but it's looking pretty bleak at this point.
Maybe when I pull the engine this winter, I should just get one of those 60-2.5 wheels from ECS tuning.

Either way, I feel as though I'm missing something *really* basic here. No one else seems to be having this much trouble with the 60-2 setup, otherwise I'd be seeing tons of posts.

Is there some VR conditioner that I can adjust on the board, or is that all done in software on the ms3pro?
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby wndrllama103 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:32 am

Another thought I had, was that maybe the other components in the vicinity are causing a problem.

I have my map sensor (GM 3-bar) and boost control solenoid (n75) mounted underneath my intake manifold, which is maybe 18" from the crank sensor. I don't know if the map sensor is a source of EMI, but I'm guessing that the boost control solenoid is.

Though, if it's a shielded cable, it shouldn't matter.
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby billr » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:51 am

Yes, if the VR cable is shielded noise issues, from anything, should not be a problem.

Yes, the MAP sensor is essentially "noiseless".

No, a solenoid itself isn't terribly noisy (EMI), it is sparking in the circuit connected to the solenoid that is noisy. Things like spark plugs, ignition points, motor brushes, alternator brushes, relay contacts, switch contacts. If the solenoid is controlled by a solid-state device little (near-zero?) EMI is produced due to its operation.
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby wndrllama103 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:34 pm

I finally was able to grab a tooth log at idle AND at when sync loss is occurring (family wasn't home when I got home from work, and I was able to make a bunch of noise outside).

In both tooth logs, the 57th tooth is slightly longer than it should be.

Is there anything I can take away from this data to help me out here?

ps. this is running a 2K in parallel on the VR, with the polarity reversed.
Attachments
2017-11-02_17.25.11-tooth.idle.csv
tooth loss at idle
(5.19 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
2017-11-02_17.25.50-tooth.sync.loss.csv
tooth loss with sync loss
(5.31 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby wndrllama103 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:43 pm

I've tried a few more suggestions, but to no avail.

I've been working on trying to fix/understand my cam fault issue in a different thread, since I'm not getting too far on this one.

I've come across people adjusting the VR POTS on the mainboard to solve these sync issues.
I think I've asked this before, but is this a legacy thing for the MS2 or is there actually something there that could help me?

Minus figuring out the cam issue, I don't have anything substantial to try here.
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby Matt Cramer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:37 pm

wndrllama103 wrote:I've tried a few more suggestions, but to no avail.

I've been working on trying to fix/understand my cam fault issue in a different thread, since I'm not getting too far on this one.

I've come across people adjusting the VR POTS on the mainboard to solve these sync issues.
I think I've asked this before, but is this a legacy thing for the MS2 or is there actually something there that could help me?

Minus figuring out the cam issue, I don't have anything substantial to try here.


MS3Pro ECUs do not use the trim pots. They're present on the MS3 V3.0 / V3.57, but the MS3Pro conditioner is completely different.
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Re: wiring suggestions/best practices for VR crank sensor

Postby wndrllama103 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:25 pm

Matt Cramer wrote:MS3Pro ECUs do not use the trim pots. They're present on the MS3 V3.0 / V3.57, but the MS3Pro conditioner is completely different.


Thanks
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