cam sensorengine

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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby billr » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:04 pm

That new picture does help. The chip is installed correctly and the DIP is set correctly for 4/1. What doesn't look correct is that I think I am seeing a (GRN) jumper wire from the "2nd trigger" directly to +5V. I think that would disable that 2nd trigger, maybe even damage its driver transistor.
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby flatbill » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:29 pm

Here are a couple more logs. I can get it to rev to about 4800 before it starts to cut out on the re limiter. Raising the setpoint doesn't seem to affect it. Changing around the trigger wheel toothcount from 8 to 16 doesn't do anything but half the rpm. setting the main wheel from cam to crank just halfs the rpm.

From what I can find out the dual sync dist puts out 8 pulses per dist rev and the cam sensor puts out 1 per dist rev.

I've been beating the bushes trying to find the right document to tell me how each of these settings affects the operation. Haven't found the right one yet. Any pointers to a good set of instructions would be great. Thanks, Bill
Attachments
2017-12-07_14.09.11.msl
(151.16 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
2017-12-07_14.14.53.csv
(84.17 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
2017-12-07_14.17.45.csv
(67.46 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby flatbill » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:51 pm

OK the green wire goes from the 5v 3-pin header on the pin closest to the screw terminal blocks on the jimstim to the 5v pin on the stimx under the 3 pots. If I disconnect that the stimx shuts off. The black wire goes from the 2nd trigger on the jimstim to the cam pin on the stlimx . If I disconnect the black wire to the cam pin the stimx shuts off. See the attached pic

When it is set up for 4-1 is that 4 pulses per distributor rev or crank rev? IF its distributor rev shouldn't it be set for 8-1?

Thanks again for hangin' in for me. Bill
Attachments
IMG_1485.JPG
IMG_1485.JPG (183.18 KiB) Viewed 99 times
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby flatbill » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:58 pm

In the TS ignition options wheel decoder I have it set


spark mode tooth wheel
trigger wheel arrangement dual wheel
trigger wheel teeth 8
main wheel speed cam wheel
second trigger active falling

Bill
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby jsmcortina » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:20 pm

Those settings look ok, although I can't be certain about the "falling" setting. It should almost certainly be the same as "ignition capture"

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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby billr » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:33 pm

Okay, I did see some difference in wire coloring in the first photo, but it wasn't absolutely clear that there were two wires there (BLK and GRN). I thought the glare might have been confusing me.

Understand, there is a difference between "4/1 CAS" (DIP 2 on) and "4-1" (DIP 3 & 4 on). I don't want to confuse things further by trying to explain, but for running on the Stim I still suggest using 36-1 to avoid confusion. That will work fine for verifying the MS tachin input is OK and it is a well-understood config for most of us.

Getting back to your specific config, to run the engine. When you set the number of trigger teeth, like the "4" or "36" mentioned above, you have a choice as to whether that is at crank speed or cam speed. If the dizzy has 8 teeth, then 8 is correct at "cam speed", but not at "crank speed".

I really still don't know what that dizzy has for teeth per dizzy (cam) revolution; info on it is pretty poor. I'm still guessing it has 8 teeth, which would give 4 pulses per crank revolution, with none "missing". Based on that, I suggested the 4/1 CAS since I think it is the only non-missing 4-tooth config available with the JimStim. The unknown factor for me, though is that "CAS" bit. Some of the CAS configs seem bizarre to me, with the crank being the low-resolution signal and the cam being the one with more teeth.

For running on the engine, I suggest trying it as simply a (non missing) dual toothed wheel with 4 teeth at crank speed; but that is assuming the dizzy has 8 teeth...

What still has me puzzled is why the comp log you posted a while back shows 4 crank teeth for every cam tooth. Maybe the "main wheel speed" was set to "cam" for that?

Post a current MSQ, comp log, tooth log, and MSL. Note that the thread you linked-to confirms the FAST dizzy has been made to work, but I didn't see any MSQ there, so it's not clear what settings to use.

Sorry if all this is confusing, and if James or Jean contradict me, they are probably right!
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby jsmcortina » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:49 am

billr wrote:For running on the engine, I suggest trying it as simply a (non missing) dual toothed wheel with 4 teeth at crank speed; but that is assuming the dizzy has 8 teeth...

The dual sync dizzy has 8 teeth at cam speed. So it is best to set the software to 8 teeth at cam speed. (On the bench it may be necessary to tweak the settings to match the stim.)

James
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby billr » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:19 pm

Is there really any functional difference between "4 at crank speed" or "8 at cam speed"? Either way, it would seem there would be 90 crank degrees between each "update" for the HW/SW. I can see that "8 at cam speed" is more intuitive for a dizzy with 8 teeth, less chance of confusion.
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby flatbill » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:37 pm

Billr, OK I tried to get it to run on dip sw 3 on 36-1 ,tooth wheel, main wheel crank, every rotation of cam and crank, Neither of these work run. Back to dip sw 2 on, 4-1 cas, tooth wheel, 8 teeth, main wheel cam, every rotation of cam. Now it runs again. Still goes freaky if rpm is over 4900. rev limiter set to 8000, normal.

I powered up the dual sync distributor on the bench and see 8 crank red led flashes and 1 cam green led flash per distributor rev. on the distributor sender.

It seems as if everything is working except the rev limiter. I am tempted to hook it up on the engine at 4/1 cas to see what it would do. This will be a job as I will have to swap out the intake with the new setup. I hesitate to do this if it is likely to be a mystery trying to get it running. If I pull the primary tach jumper and the secondary tach wire from the jimstim to the stimx can I hook up the distributor crank output to the stimx and the distributor cam output to the cam pin on the stimx? Is there a location on the jimstim orthe stimx to input the crank signal?

I will attach files. A fourth attachment is in my next post. Thanks, Bill
Attachments
2017-12-10_15.02.57.msl
(29.93 KiB) Not downloaded yet
2017-12-10_15.12.56.csv
(116.01 KiB) Not downloaded yet
2017-12-10_15.17.20.csv
(62.78 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby flatbill » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:38 pm

Additional log. Bill
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2017-12-10_15.35.40.msl
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby billr » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:01 pm

When it wouldn't work as 36-1 (DIP 3 "on", only), was that when connected to the JimStim? Was the MSQ also changed to 36-1? If the answer to both is "yes", then you should resolve that before moving on to the actual engine. It may simply be just a problem with settings or jumpers, or a JimStim problem, but why go on to the trickier triggering from the dizzy if you aren't sure the MS is OK?
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby flatbill » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:37 pm

Billr, I think I have it set up correctly for 36-1. Dip sw. 3 on all others off, In TS I have selected tooth wheel, 36 teeth, ignition capture rising, spark output going high, single coil, ms3x spark, ms3x cam in, dual wheel arrangement, 36 trigger wheel teeth, main wheel speed crank, second trigger active falling, every rotation of cam. burned and recycled ms3.

I didn't see a place to select the "1" in the 36-1 setting in the TS.

rpm going crazy up and down,
lost sync counter sweeping
fuel pump led flashing, I suppose because of the rpm bouncing to zero
missing random flashes on the sequential leds

getting error on TS screen, "data failed in for 2 attempts. Some recent changes may be lost. Local data will be refreshed from controller." I have seen this error even when running the syste at 4-1 with no obvious fkunny business.

files attached. Bill
Attachments
2017-12-11_14.00.24.msl
(139.04 KiB) Not downloaded yet
2017-12-11_14.29.55.msq
(284.42 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
2017-12-11_14.32.12.csv
(35.38 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby racingmini_mtl » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:11 pm

You don't see where to set the '-1' because you don't have the correct setting. You have the trigger wheel arrangement set for 'dual wheel' but you need to set it to 'dual wheel with missing tooth'.

The way you have it set, it's not expecting a missing tooth so that screws RPM up when it does show up.

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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby flatbill » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:26 am

racingmini, Thanks for the help. Now its running good. The only other issue is what seems to be the rev limiter. No matter how high I set the limiter, now at 8000 hard limit with 200 soft limit the tach gauge turns red. In a normal state the tach shows a yellow band from 3000to 5000 rpm.The advance doesn't seem to drop off when the gauge goes red. Is there some other item to set? Thanks, Bill
Attachments
Capture_1.JPG
rev limiter pic
Capture_1.JPG (32.5 KiB) Viewed 27 times
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby jsmcortina » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:52 am

From the screenshot you have all the limiter options turned off.

James
I can supply, repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. http://www.jamesmurrayengineering.co.uk

My Success story: viewtopic.php?f=104&t=34277
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby racingmini_mtl » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:57 am

What you are talking about are not the rev limit options but the display options for the RPM gauge. What is displayed on the gauge (red gauge and yellow band) is different from what the ECU is doing for rev limiting. Look at the "Gauge and Settings Limits" to change the RPM gauge look.

Jean
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Re: cam sensorengine

Postby flatbill » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:22 pm

Racingmini, Thanks, I have not set this kind of system up in a long while. Now seems to be all good. The tach is right now.

Thanks to all who helped me get this straightened out. I would go crazy without your help. Now to get it installed and running on the engine. I'll be using most of the sensors and controlers from my old TBI system so I am familiar with these. Bill

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