Need suggestions on VE prior to working on AE

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Need suggestions on VE prior to working on AE

Postby Targa44 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:33 pm

MS3 "Setting Up" page 70... "Before you start tuning AE, make sure your VE tables are dialed in"

... with respect, how do you know you're dialed in as well as you can? I'm still in the trial & error phase of VEAL, but in my last run, it started feeling like it's old self (prior to MS). I've incorporated AFR, so the VEAL is only interpreting/adjusting to what I input for AFR - no? Which is a best guess.

Q1 - Is it seat of the pants to determine "dialed in". What other factors should I consider?

Q2 - Should everyone then proceed to AE? Is AE required to get best performance? I only have MAP available currently.

Stats:
Porsche 3.0 ltr air cooled n/a with about 200hp. MS3 3.0

thanks again,

kj
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Re: Need suggestions on VE prior to working on AE

Postby Matt Cramer » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:10 am

If you are hitting your AFR targets everywhere in the RPM and load range at steady throttle, you can consider the VE table to be dialed in.

The only engines we've seen where the motor did not need AE were running vapor phase fuels - CNG or propane. Anything else needed AE, although you may luck out and have the default AE curve work for your engine.
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Re: Need suggestions on VE prior to working on AE

Postby Targa44 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:11 am

... at steady throttle. I'll be more aware of that. Thank you.

kj
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Re: Need suggestions on VE prior to working on AE

Postby whittlebeast » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:05 pm

See if this helps

https://youtu.be/CG_kY3K_2AE

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Re: Need suggestions on VE prior to working on AE

Postby Targa44 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:19 pm

Hi Andy,

.... you've been incredibly helpful to a lot of people here and I've actually watched that video before. However, as a part time tinkerer, this would run my learning curve near vertical. But, I don't see anyway around it... either make it happen or run it to a pro. So, thanks for chiming in. It's decision time as I really enjoy autocross and the car sat all of last season because I got so discouraged. At least I can say it'll get me from A to B for now.

kj
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Re: Need suggestions on VE prior to working on AE

Postby MegaMicra » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:08 am

For what it's worth, and I'm no tuner, and I started from scratch last August, I used the default afr table that the setup (after I entered all my settings inj size, engine cc etc) gave me. I did however resize it to a max of 100kpa and re-did the scale as mines not turbo, and I re-did the rpm scale also to fit with my engine better. I set the AE so that it would never activate and also I set incorporate afr table then went for a drive whilst datalogging. In megalogviewer I then tweaked the ve table to lean or enrich if required at certain points and went datalog driving again to check.
This has worked really well for me, and I've now added in the AE to fill in lean spots when I accelerate quickly.

I forgot to say that right at the beginning I drove it around with the laptop in the passenger seat and tweaked the ve tables using my wideband as a guide to match the afr table.



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Re: Need suggestions on VE prior to working on AE

Postby Targa44 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:56 pm

Thanks Mega. We're similar in approach - only I used VEAL, but will start getting involved with datalogging as I think it's part of the process to incorporate AE. I'm going to start a thread about start-up and idle soon to try and better understand that process and get a less finicky start and smoothing out idle.

thanks,

kj
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Re: Need suggestions on VE prior to working on AE

Postby whittlebeast » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:59 pm

I run AE wile tuning VE.
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