Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

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Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:12 am

After going from EDIS8 to CNP, LS2 coils, I noticed in my log after my first drive, with engine idling, that I had several lost sync count errors. Looking at my log, idle is around 950 rpm, idle was getting lower every few seconds and I thought the engine would die on me.
In my log you can see several times my rpm is at zero, then going up again to around 650 rpm and after lost sync count stopped I had normal idle again.
The VR sensor is new and worked fine with EDIS.
Sync 2 error.
Only occurs during starting, which I never had before, and at idle when engine is warm.
Have 13.5 V even at 0—650 rpm. When starting the engine my voltage does drop to about 9.6V, which has always been that way. Don't think it’s the alternator.
Attached is a short log and my MSQ
Attachments
2018-02-03_Current Tune.msq
(237.86 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
2018-01-30_CNP_modified.msl
(146.27 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
1992 Corvette C4 using MS3X, was EDIS 8 soon using coil near plug
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby prof315 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:23 am

tooth log?
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:25 am

More I don't have at the moment. The composite log is 18 mb large
tooth.csv.png
tooth.csv.png (14.86 KiB) Viewed 169 times
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby billr » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:09 pm

How do you have the pots set for the CKP sensor? Full CCW on both usually works best for VR.
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:21 pm

I really don't know, I bought the MS3X from prof315 and never had to change anything, because it worked up to now.
Like I wrote before, I swapped the EDIS8 for CNP, that's all...
Never looked inside the MS3 housing, wouldn't know what to do anyway.
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby racingmini_mtl » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:28 pm

arnold1 wrote:... I swapped the EDIS8 for CNP, that's all...

That's actually not "all". Because when you remove the EDIS module, you also connect the VR sensor directly to the MS which makes a big difference. As mentioned, you will need to set the pots correctly because they are very likely not set as they should for a direct VR connection. Check the manual if you don't know how. And hopefully, you do have the MS set to use the VR input. That's also in the manual.

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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:41 pm

Of course I had to do some wiring but didn't have to change anything inside the MS3X.
The engine runs great up to redline 6900 rpm but I'm worried about the engine dieing on me at the traffic light. Would look pretty silly wouldn't you think?
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby prof315 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:24 am

The R56 trim pot ( on the V3.0 mainboard) needs to be adjusted to fully CCW
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:12 am

I've been reading for days on what to do in case one has lost sync count errors.
At least 20 diffent ideas on how to fix it including using resistors, capacitors and turning both pots to fully CCW. Some even said after turning the pots CCW they advised then to turn them 10.5 turns CW.

prof315 wrote:The R56 trim pot ( on the V3.0 mainboard) needs to be adjusted to fully CCW

Jeff. I will do what you recommended first and see what happens!!!
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby DaveEFI » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:45 am

The pots have a worm drive and slipping clutch. Once they reach their end, turning them further makes no difference. If you want be be certain they have reached the end, measure with a DVM.
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:49 am

Lots of ice and snow are keeping me from driving my Vette; hopefully I can do something today.
I was just thinking if the newest Firmware would help. I'm a little hesitant in upgrading because everything is working good. Never change a winning team!!
Firmware: 1.3.2
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby prof315 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:44 am

Updating the firmware is not likely to fix anything, but there are lots of new features and bug fixes in 1.5.1
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:55 am

I didn't do very much today but did a start sequence, just starting the engine 3 times and shutting it down real fast.
1. 11.4 V weil starting voltage dropped to 9.0 V but no lost sync count
2. 11.4 V " """ " """""" "" """""""" 8.9 V but no lost sync count
3. 11.4 V " " """""""""""""" " "" 8.9 V 1
lost sync count

I have learned that lost sync counts are of no matter while starting, but I never had them before. Since I can't dirve at the moment that's all I can do is start the engine.

Don't have anymore time to take the MS apart to adjust the R56 pot, but at the latest on Monday
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby jsmcortina » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:17 pm

arnold1 wrote:I have learned that lost sync counts are of no matter while starting, but I never had them before.

It is pretty much impossible to get sync-loss with EDIS.

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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:05 am

[/quote] It is pretty much impossible to get sync-loss with EDIS.
James[/quote]

James, I can send you plenty of logs with lost sync counts with my EDIS8, let me know if you need any.

Just wanted to let you know I charged the battery and turned the R56 pot 18 turns CCW. Didn't hear or notice any difference while turning, so I wanted to be sure it was as far CCW as it could be.
This time I cranked the engine 4 times until it ran a few seconds at idle.
14.7 V ...9.3 V but no lost sync error.
I'll have to wait until the weather gets better before I can say how my idle and lost sync count is after a 10 min drive.

Question:
I have read that setting the distance from VR sensor to wheel makes a difference in noise, the further away the less noise.
My distance is about 0.0030" at the moment. I used to have more 0.0035"--0.0039"

2018-02-12_4_modified.msl
4th try cranking engine
(134.62 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby jsmcortina » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:56 am

arnold1 wrote:
It is pretty much impossible to get sync-loss with EDIS.
James

James, I can send you plenty of logs with lost sync counts with my EDIS8, let me know if you need any.

If the EDIS8 PIP signal alone is used (no cam signal) the code does not check for lost sync, so it cannot report lost sync.

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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:56 am

James, I will be neglecting all posts that are trying to change the theme of this thread. So please open your own thread or send me a pm and I will be glad to send you plenty of logs showing you, it is possible to have lost sync counts with EDIS.

I ran over this info in the manual:
If you adjusted only the trigger pot (R56) the signal would be very noisy, since the output would change every time the signal passed through the trigger voltage. So you would adjust the hysteresis pot to clean up the signal.
Does anyone know if this is true, since I only adjusted the pot R56???

In my last post I also asked if the distance between wheel and VR sensor made a difference in noise. This I also read in the manual
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby billr » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:14 pm

"The VR sensor is new and worked fine with EDIS."

Remember that from the beginning of this thread? I think James is trying to point out that it may not have been "working fine" before. The EDIS module may have been experiencing sync-loss; but since it doesn't report those to MS, then MS had none to log. Now that MS is seeing the VR input directly and decoding the signal itself, it has a chance to log problems and is faithfully doing so.

Let's try to get "out of the weeds" here. How are the mainboard pots set now? I see you have tried R56 full CCW, but what about the other pot (R52)? Post a tooth-log. Generally, I advise setting the sensor air-gap as close as the runout of your wheel will allow. .005-.015" should be doable if your wheel was installed skillfully.
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:51 am

billr, like I wrote before, I only changed the R56 pot so far. Can't do anything until the weather gets better.
The manual also says, don't get too close or it will get noisy.
I also know the manual is only for reference but does a good job of pointing one in the right direction.

2018-02-12_4. try.csv
last of 4 tries
(66.74 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
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Re: Going from EDIS8 to CNP now lost sync count errors

Postby arnold1 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:25 am

So, I finally got to drive my Vette. Could only drive like ten minutes but it was enough I guess. I have a datalog and a tooth log.
While starting the engine, driving or at idle I have no more lost sync count errors.

What I did notice while I parked and let the engine idle, water temp was about 125°, I reved up the engine a little to get it warmed up faster. I looked at my gauges, don’t know where MS3 got the VSS signals from, showing me I’m driving various speeds 15 mph or so depending how high I reved the engine.
Has this maybe something to do with me only adjusting the R56 pot and not also the R52????
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