MS3 update (Apr 09)

[jsmcortina]

There was a update session at the Megameet this weekend. The videos should be posted soon, but here's a summary.

MS3 is now a plugin card that installs on a Megasquirt mainboard (V3.57, V3.0, V2.2)
It uses a faster CPU than MS2. Dual core.
Has on board high speed SDCARD data logging
Plugin swap for MS2 - no re wiring.
Many more inputs and outputs.
Expansion connectors.
USB link for tuning.

Also announced was the MS3 Expansion board which fits inside the Megasquirt case.
This has drivers for eight injectors,
eight logic coil ouputs
Six relay/valve outputs
Analogue inputs
Switch inputs
Vr input

We installed an MS3 board on a car and it fired right up!

However, we still have lots to do before we are even ready for small scale beta testing.

Pictures to follow.

James

[arlo#1]

Thats awsome This is where I need to go with the road runner. So does this meen wen can still use the standard 4 injector outputs on the main bord and use 8 on the expansion bord? I am looking at ways to run sequencial with the 16injector system I have but only need sequencial for my 8 primary injectors and the other 8 can stay batch fire. This will clean up my hydrocarbons bigtime and cut down on the fuel consumption as well alow for cylinder deactivation!

[jsmcortina]

Yes, it is planned to feature staging so the eight injector drivers on "MS3X" board and the two injector channels on the main board can all be utilised.

James

[Mustang68]

Nice, I have already a dualcore ms2 V8 seq inj and spark. If you are ready for beta testing count my in.

Jacco

[Peter Florance]

Really amazing how well the testing came together.

I told James I'd be happy to do a long term test (9 hours back to Va Beach) but he knew they would never get it back!

[muythaibxr]

Thats awsome This is where I need to go with the road runner. So does this meen wen can still use the standard 4 injector outputs on the main bord and use 8 on the expansion bord? I am looking at ways to run sequencial with the 16injector system I have but only need sequencial for my 8 primary injectors and the other 8 can stay batch fire. This will clean up my hydrocarbons bigtime and cut down on the fuel consumption as well alow for cylinder deactivation!

There are only 2 injector outputs on the main board, but you'll be able to use them.

Ken

[muythaibxr]

Nice, I have already a dualcore ms2 V8 seq inj and spark. If you are ready for beta testing count my in.

Jacco

This is dual-core in a different way...

The 9s12x part has the main s12 processor running at 50MHz, and a RISC-based 100MHz interrupt co-processor.

Ken

[Mustang68]

This is dual-core in a different way...

That was clear to me.

Jacco

[jsmcortina]

Top view of MS3 card, showing CPU, SDCARD connector, USB connector, stepper chip, injector chip, 40 pin header pins (connector below) and two expansion connectors for the MS3X card or DIYing.

James

[muythaibxr]

This is dual-core in a different way...

That was clear to me.

Jacco

Just making sure it was clear for everyone else.

Ken

[arlo#1]

Thats awsome This is where I need to go with the road runner. So does this meen wen can still use the standard 4 injector outputs on the main bord and use 8 on the expansion bord? I am looking at ways to run sequencial with the 16injector system I have but only need sequencial for my 8 primary injectors and the other 8 can stay batch fire. This will clean up my hydrocarbons bigtime and cut down on the fuel consumption as well alow for cylinder deactivation!

There are only 2 injector outputs on the main board, but you'll be able to use them.

Ken

Yeh I knew that my bad lol man this is perfact for me then not nerly as much rewireing I will just add 8 wires to the pimary injectors and hope I can run the staged 8 as one big batch! Then that will free up a driver for running a solinoid like water/methinjection or something cool like that (darel cox found 18whp on the dyno by mixing 3% nitro into his methinjection) Tranny control would be my other device I need to control but just an overdrive solinoid maybe one for lock up when I find another 4speed auto to build. Let me know what beta testing requires I am in for sure!

[KaPower]

Will the SD card slot and usb port come out the front or the side of the case? What will happen to the serial connector on the v3 and v2 pcb's?

[muythaibxr]

Just another quick update on the ms3. Here is the planned software roadmap:

MS3 1.0 code:

The MS3 operates in 2 "modes." There is an "upgrade" mode which has the following characteristics:

• -Direct plug-in swap for MS2 daughtercard
  -Compatible with MS2 wiring
  • -Same single spark output
    -Same injector outputs
  -Compatible with MS2/Extra wiring
  • -Same six spark outputs
    -Same injector outputs
    -Same switch inputs
  -USB connector (USB->serial)
  -On-board SD device datalogging (per ignition/injection-event resolution)

There is also an "MS3X" mode:

• -Uses expander board for more I/O
  -8 channel sequential fuel
  -8 channel coil-on-plug (logic level output)
  -Trim tables for fuel and spark (6x6)
  -Minimal on-board wiring 'mods' (no more wiring mess everywhere)
  -Pre-defined outputs for certain features
  -Individual injector parameters with opening-time curves
  -Hardware PWM outputs for idle, boost, VVT, etc (only supported on PWM outputs via the expander board)...

Both "upgrade" mode and "standard" mode will support everything that ms2/extra supports. In addition, X-tau will be added to make upgrading from ms2-standard easier, and MAF support and fuel perturbation mode will be added as well from the ms2/standard code (although it may not look exactly the same). In addition, due to certain paging limitations in megatune, we will be requiring the use of Phil Tobin's TunerStudio. One point of interest is that due to the organization of RAM and flash, the burn-stumble from ms2/extra is now gone.

MS3 2.0 code:

• -Angle clock will be used for timing ignition and fuel events (and other events)
  • -More accurate at scheduling events (especially in acceleration and deceleration, hoping for 0.1 degree accuracy to 16667 RPM based on a 1 microsecond tick rate on the XGATE)
    -Essentially a clock that ticks in degrees instead of time... counts from 0 to 719.9 degrees in tenths of a degree
    -Allows for the integration of post-2.0 model-based features (as many as we can add with a CPU of this speed)
    -Will incorporate alpha-beta-gamma for predicting the number of microseconds per angle-tick
  -Up to ten injector outputs (8 on MS3X, 2 on V3)
  • -Staged injection, water injection, methanol injection on spare injectors
  -Up to 14 spark outputs (8 on MS3X, 6 on V3 board)
  -Progressive nitrous control
  -Anti-lag (becomes easy to do with the angle clock)
  -Knock-windowing (becomes easy to do with the angle clock)
  -Special Rotary engine mode with support for sequential-staged injection and FC, FD, Renesis, 3-rotor COP and 4-rotor COP modes

I'm sure there will be many more cool features that having an angle clock will make easier. I have attached a loose flow-chart (could change as I implement the angle clock) for how I plan on having the angle-clock work.

What's left to do before....

Beta?

• -Complete work on the monitor
  -Make sure all porting from MS2/extra I/O works, including all I/O (both upgrade mode and MS3X mode I/O)
  -Make sure all porting from MS2/extra features work (regression testing of the whole firmware basically).
  -Upgrade mode only
  -Get SD-card datalogging working
  • -Choice between starting logging as soon as a card is plugged in and using a toggle switch to start it
    -SD card must be formatted on PC
    -Any existing log files will be skipped.
    -All space on the device will be taken by pre-allocated files for logging speed purposes
    -Pre-allocated files will be relatively small in order to make them easier to load in a log-viewer
    -One of the v3's built-in LEDs can be repurposed to give datalogging status

Hardware Release?
All of the beta features plus full support for the MS3X expander board.

That's all I can come up with for now. Keep in mind that while we've had a few engines running, there is still a lot of work to do. Stay tuned for more info.

Ken

[muythaibxr]

Will the SD card slot and usb port come out the front or the side of the case? What will happen to the serial connector on the v3 and v2 pcb's?

A few pictures are worth a thousand words (attached):

ms3-1.jpg

ms3-2.jpg

ms3-3.jpg

As should be obvious, some screws/stand-offs will have to be added, and a new front end-plate.

Ken

[Paul_VR6]

Excellent news!

Where's the sign up sheet for beta testing?

[shauer]

Will the initial version of the SD card logging have the ability to insert event markers into the log file based on a push button input, or perhaps some event specification set up in Tuner Studio? It would be nice to be able to push a button to insert a marker when something of interest happens while driving.

[Joe]

The MS3 looks like an ideal solution to a number of issues. Very impressive. A couple of questions.

1) Is the MS3 going to replace the Sequencer?? Or will both products be available?

2)What is the target price(Roughly)??

Does the MS3 have GM IAC control like the MS2??

Thanks,

Joe

[muythaibxr]

Will the initial version of the SD card logging have the ability to insert event markers into the log file based on a push button input, or perhaps some event specification set up in Tuner Studio? It would be nice to be able to push a button to insert a marker when something of interest happens while driving.

The initial version will allow you to choose from a 64-byte or 128-byte "packet" size (64-bytes will be able to be logged faster), and will allow you to choose which data you want to log.

We hadn't planned on having a button for inserting markers, and there are no buttons on the ms3 itself, but there should be enough outputs that one of them could be used for this purpose as an option. That will probably not be in the initial version but we'll see.

Ken

[muythaibxr]

The MS3 looks like an ideal solution to a number of issues. Very impressive. A couple of questions.

1) Is the MS3 going to replace the Sequencer?? Or will both products be available?

They will both be available. In my opinion they are really for different markets. I will let Bruce elaborate on that if he wants.

2)What is the target price(Roughly)??

We don't know yet, but we're trying to keep it as inexpensive as possible.

Does the MS3 have GM IAC control like the MS2??

Yes.

Ken

[BowlingSuperior]

The MS3 looks like an ideal solution to a number of issues. Very impressive. A couple of questions.

1) Is the MS3 going to replace the Sequencer?? Or will both products be available?

Both products will be available. They are two different animals - the sequencer is targeted for simpler setups where one just needs sequential injection, cop, and a few I/O. The MS3 is intended as an upgrade path for MS2 with lots of I/O for all sorts of controls.

2)What is the target price(Roughly)??

We are working the pricing out right now. This board is more complex than the MS2 because of the SD card slot and extra components, and the processor cost more $$$s. The board assembly costs are also higher. But, with that all said we will keep the cost as rock-bottom as possible. If I had to guess I would say that would come out to be 2X the cost of a MSII module or thereabouts...

Also, on the question of availability and beta-testing... This time around we are in much better position than ever before to deploy. We have all of the components on-hand and I made up some additional PCB panels on the pilot run just waiting to be reflowed and tested. So, when James/Ken indicate that the board is functional, to the point where its time to get it on beta vehicles, we will make up a small number for beta. Once this proves out we will be ready to run with these. I would suspect that beta testing could happen as soon a 4 - 6 weeks and production very shortly after that. Barring any unforeseen issues I would expect full production by the end of the summer/early fall. The expansion board will be on the heels of MS3, again we have all components and once we have PCBs it will be the same deal.

- Bruce