MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
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MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
Just want to check to make sure I am doing everything correctly. I want to run full sequential COP on my non-vanos BMW M50 engine. I tried to do everything in the stock ecu case but I ended up a little too tall so I will have to make a custom lid.
The engine I am using will have:
Stock BMW M50 COP's
60-2 crank trigger wheel with VR sensor
1 tooth cam wheel with VR sensor
3-wire PWM IAC
Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4
I am using the ignition outputs A through F on the MS3X going to 6 330 ohm resistors and then to the left pin on 6 coil drivers sold by glens garage. The middle pin goes to the harness and the right pin goes to ground. I currently have this as ground on the MS3X but after some more reading it looks like it should go to ground on the engine.
I have the pots for both the crank and cam sensors turned counterclockwise.
I used some of Goathumpers megasquirt-M50 instructions but tried to update them for the MS3/X setup. The first number is the pin on the BMW harness followed by a description. The last number is where it goes on the V3 mainboard or MS3X expansion board.
I am not sure if I have FIDLE and IDLE the correct way or backwards - can I switch them in the software?
BMW M50 88-PIN
1 - FUEL PUMP RELAY - V3 #37
2 - FIDLE - V3 #30
3 - FUEL INJECTOR 1 - A - MS3X #19
4 - FUEL INJECTOR 3 - C - MS3X #13
5 - FUEL INJECTOR 2 - E - MS3X #7
6 - GND - V3 AND MS3X
12 - TPS - V3 #22
23 - COIL 2 - SPARK E
24 - COIL 3 - SPARK C
25 - COIL 1 - SPARK A
28 - GND - V3 AND MS3X
29 - IDLE - MS3X #9
31 - FUEL INJECTOR 5 - B - MS3X #16
32 - FUEL INJECTOR 6 - D - MS3X #10
33 - FUEL INJECTOR 4 - F - MS3X #4
34 - GND - V3 AND MS3X
37 - GND - V3 AND MS3X
50 - COIL 4 - SPARK F
51 - COIL 6 - SPARK D
52 - COIL 5 - SPARK B
59 - TPS 5V - V3 #26
67 - CRANK VR SENSOR - V3 #24
68 - CAM VR SENSOR - MS3X #32
70 - OXYGEN SENSOR - V3 #23
71 - SENSOR GROUND - V3 #2
74 - TACH OUT - MS3X #26
77 - INTAKE AIR TEMP - V3 #20
78 - COOLANT TEMP - V3 #21
Can someone in the know please give me any tips before I start installing this setup?
The engine I am using will have:
Stock BMW M50 COP's
60-2 crank trigger wheel with VR sensor
1 tooth cam wheel with VR sensor
3-wire PWM IAC
Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4
I am using the ignition outputs A through F on the MS3X going to 6 330 ohm resistors and then to the left pin on 6 coil drivers sold by glens garage. The middle pin goes to the harness and the right pin goes to ground. I currently have this as ground on the MS3X but after some more reading it looks like it should go to ground on the engine.
I have the pots for both the crank and cam sensors turned counterclockwise.
I used some of Goathumpers megasquirt-M50 instructions but tried to update them for the MS3/X setup. The first number is the pin on the BMW harness followed by a description. The last number is where it goes on the V3 mainboard or MS3X expansion board.
I am not sure if I have FIDLE and IDLE the correct way or backwards - can I switch them in the software?
BMW M50 88-PIN
1 - FUEL PUMP RELAY - V3 #37
2 - FIDLE - V3 #30
3 - FUEL INJECTOR 1 - A - MS3X #19
4 - FUEL INJECTOR 3 - C - MS3X #13
5 - FUEL INJECTOR 2 - E - MS3X #7
6 - GND - V3 AND MS3X
12 - TPS - V3 #22
23 - COIL 2 - SPARK E
24 - COIL 3 - SPARK C
25 - COIL 1 - SPARK A
28 - GND - V3 AND MS3X
29 - IDLE - MS3X #9
31 - FUEL INJECTOR 5 - B - MS3X #16
32 - FUEL INJECTOR 6 - D - MS3X #10
33 - FUEL INJECTOR 4 - F - MS3X #4
34 - GND - V3 AND MS3X
37 - GND - V3 AND MS3X
50 - COIL 4 - SPARK F
51 - COIL 6 - SPARK D
52 - COIL 5 - SPARK B
59 - TPS 5V - V3 #26
67 - CRANK VR SENSOR - V3 #24
68 - CAM VR SENSOR - MS3X #32
70 - OXYGEN SENSOR - V3 #23
71 - SENSOR GROUND - V3 #2
74 - TACH OUT - MS3X #26
77 - INTAKE AIR TEMP - V3 #20
78 - COOLANT TEMP - V3 #21
Can someone in the know please give me any tips before I start installing this setup?
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
nice work. I've been working on my own setup, that will go into an E30. I want to use the M50 harness to run full sequential on an M20. Here's what I've got so far..
http://www.megasquirt.325ix.com/MS_to_M ... 3.3.1.html
still need to double check it for errors and clear up a few things.
http://www.megasquirt.325ix.com/MS_to_M ... 3.3.1.html
still need to double check it for errors and clear up a few things.
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
Hey that looks pretty familiar. I just flipped through it quickly and see a few differences - you must be using a M50TU harness, right? That would account for differences between coil/injector positions as well as hall instead of VR sensors.
Do you know what kind of output the VSS from the cluster has?
Mine is going in an e30 also - non-vanos 2.9 with dual intake cams, 11:1 compression plus the regular bolt ons.
Do you know what kind of output the VSS from the cluster has?
Mine is going in an e30 also - non-vanos 2.9 with dual intake cams, 11:1 compression plus the regular bolt ons.
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
yeah, I used the ETM from a vanos M50 to develop my chart. I'll have to compare with your chart to see what differences there are, I'm not sure yet which harness to use.dave.a.cote wrote:Hey that looks pretty familiar. I just flipped through it quickly and see a few differences - you must be using a M50TU harness, right? That would account for differences between coil/injector positions as well as hall instead of VR sensors.
Do you know what kind of output the VSS from the cluster has?
Mine is going in an e30 also - non-vanos 2.9 with dual intake cams, 11:1 compression plus the regular bolt ons.
should be a 5v square wave. it's already conditioned by the cluster to send to the OBC and ECU, so it shouldn't need anything else, just plug it into a spare input and call it a day.
the interesting thing is I'm sort of doing an M50 swap, as far as electronics are concerned. It just didn't make sense to try to add 5 spark outputs and 4 injector outputs to the motronic 1.3 harness, when M50 harnesses are $100 and have all that stuff already. I want to build the MS3 ECU from scratch anyway, then I can sell my MS2 and modified harness together.
Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
I have a similar setup going into a M50TU. Had problem with those same instructions from Goathumper...my problem was I had a SIEMENS M40 ECU, which means different pinout. The rest sounds good.
Nice work!
Nice work!
Those who can do, those who can't talk about it. - Colin Chapman
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
I am using a non-vanos harness. After flipping though a couple other threads I think I might change my idle setup to use two outputs on the 3x instead of 1 on the 3x and one on the mainboard.
Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
hello, im new here. i am building a ms3/ms3x for a m52 to go in my e30. i was wondering how you build your 3wire pwm circuit. Do you install Q2 and Q4 on the mainboard, or is the circuit built on the ms3x board?
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
For 3 wire idle you can use two outputs on the MS3X. The mainboard components aren't needed, but you might as well install them for completeness (i.e. install them as standard - don't do the 'mods' with a TIP122 etc.)howelll wrote:hello, im new here. i am building a ms3/ms3x for a m52 to go in my e30. i was wondering how you build your 3wire pwm circuit. Do you install Q2 and Q4 on the mainboard, or is the circuit built on the ms3x board?
James
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
I think it makes the most sense to do it this way.. The only reason I wouldn't is if you needed all of those other MS3x PWM outputs for other functions. I wasn't at first, but this way I can completely eliminate the GG idle board I'm using now and significantly clean up my wiring.dave.a.cote wrote:I am using a non-vanos harness. After flipping though a couple other threads I think I might change my idle setup to use two outputs on the 3x instead of 1 on the 3x and one on the mainboard.
BTW I've also created a C101 to X20 chart for a '90 E30 and 93-95 E36, and have uploaded my full excel spreadsheet as well:
http://www.megasquirt.325ix.com/MS_to_M ... 20X20.html
http://www.megasquirt.325ix.com/MS_to_M ... c%203x.xls
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
if it's 88 pin it shouldn't matter what ECU you use, since you're using only the connector from the ECU and gutting all the electronics.bmbelo wrote:I have a similar setup going into a M50TU. Had problem with those same instructions from Goathumper...my problem was I had a SIEMENS M40 ECU, which means different pinout. The rest sounds good.
Nice work!
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
So I finally have the engine sitting in the car and was trying to check some wiring and now have myself completely confused.
I don't know what the deal is with the 2n2222a and the 1n4001 as shown here - what are they for?
http://www.megasquirt.325ix.com/MS_to_M ... rcuit.html
I thought that pin 54 on the m50 harness would be switched 12v power and so I connected it to pin 28 on MS3.
When I switch on the key however, I get 0 volts on pin 54 of the m50 harness. Can you help out?
I don't know what the deal is with the 2n2222a and the 1n4001 as shown here - what are they for?
http://www.megasquirt.325ix.com/MS_to_M ... rcuit.html
I thought that pin 54 on the m50 harness would be switched 12v power and so I connected it to pin 28 on MS3.
When I switch on the key however, I get 0 volts on pin 54 of the m50 harness. Can you help out?
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
they trigger the main relay
see:
http://www.megasquirt.325ix.com/MS_to_M ... rcuit.html
you can't power the harness your way, since the key sends a signal to the ECU, and the ECU turns on the relay.
see:
http://www.megasquirt.325ix.com/MS_to_M ... rcuit.html
you can't power the harness your way, since the key sends a signal to the ECU, and the ECU turns on the relay.
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
I'll give it a shot - I guess I'm mostly confused as to why this diode/transistor combo is necessary. Why doesn't the key turn on the relay?
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
because it keeps high current from going through the ignition switch. It's basically a copy of the circuit used in the factory ECU. the ECU has a constant 12v (high current from the battery), a switched 12v from the ingition switch (low current), and a connection to trip the main relay.dave.a.cote wrote:I'll give it a shot - I guess I'm mostly confused as to why this diode/transistor combo is necessary. Why doesn't the key turn on the relay?
just do it, BMW did it that way for good reason.
I understand the confusion, I didn't get it either. Actually the original instructions made little sense to me, so I reverse engineered them to better understand exactly what it was doing. maybe I'll do a real diagram (the original diagram sucks) and some pics for better clarity.
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
oh, you're using an M50NV harness right? check the pins, they probably changed. When I'm done I want to go back and do a chart for the NV engine.
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
I think that part of the harness is the same between the NV and vanos setups.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=879273
I am still using pins 26, 27 and 56 to connect the components but I think that there is a bit of info missing - I will go off of your instructions.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=879273
I am still using pins 26, 27 and 56 to connect the components but I think that there is a bit of info missing - I will go off of your instructions.
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
if you beat me to it, let me know how it works. I'm sort of dead in the water until I get my harness.
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
It worked! Thanks for the help - now I have to figure out my sensor calibrations and timings ect. before I can try and start it.
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Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
nice! good to hear. I've got 3 setups to build that circuit for.
Re: MS3 + MS3X + BMW M50
dave.a.cote wrote: I am using the ignition outputs A through F on the MS3X going to 6 330 ohm resistors and then to the left pin on 6 coil drivers sold by glens garage.
With MS3x there is no need to wire the 330 ohm resistors.
David
Car: BMW 318Ti 1995 1.8 M42 Engine.
Megasquirt 3.0 + MS3x board Code 1.3
4cyl Cop Ignition,crank+cam wheels based on vr sensors.
Ignition: full sequential
Fuel: full sequential
Bosch 3 wire pwm idle valve
Megasquirt 3.0 + MS3x board Code 1.3
4cyl Cop Ignition,crank+cam wheels based on vr sensors.
Ignition: full sequential
Fuel: full sequential
Bosch 3 wire pwm idle valve