Recomended Hall Sensor

[kritip]

Cheers Mike

Gonna order some 627's in a day or two and swallow the £12 P+P. I'll report back once installed

[Jon k]

Man, this is what I miss about the MS community!

Love this stuff. I have some extremely tight areas I want to play with jamming a hall sensor (BMW wheel speed) and this might just be the ticket!

Now, are you guys sinking the end of the sensor into the threaded tube or is it inset? Ie., is air gap measured by the sensor tip to wheel or what not?

Also - does mounting it in a ferrous holder matter? I only see hall sensors come in aluminum threaded or stainless steel threaded - I had machined a holder to mimic BMW sensors but its mild steel and I think maybe it is less than ideal.



Also again - is there a direct it should be oriented? Ie., can the teeth come by long ways or short ways?

What are you guys using for pull up values?

These are sinking type, yeah?

[myk777]

Now, are you guys sinking the end of the sensor into the threaded tube or is it inset? Ie., is air gap measured by the sensor tip to wheel or what not?

Not sure I completely understand your question here, but the end of the hall sensor is flush with the end of the threaded tube, the gap to the wheel is measured from this surface.

Also - does mounting it in a ferrous holder matter? I only see hall sensors come in aluminum threaded or stainless steel threaded - I had machined a holder to mimic BMW sensors but its mild steel and I think maybe it is less than ideal.

See the last post of the first page of this thread, I tried it with a ferrous steel tube with the Allegro 616 sensor in my Jeep and it works just fine.

Also again - is there a direct it should be oriented? Ie., can the teeth come by long ways or short ways?

What are you guys using for pull up values?

These are sinking type, yeah?

Yes, the orientation on the Allegro sensors I used is important, see the datasheet for details, some other hall sensors are not though... I used a 330ohm resistor with 5v, the sensors I used are rated to sink up to 25ma.

Good looking machine work there
Mike

[Ollie8974]

myk777
Talked to you and looked at your Quad runner at the Mega squirt seminar in Kent last year. Also read your earlier posts on fabricating the sensors. The question I have regarding the 10x1 metric threaded tube. what is your source?
Do you fabricate it or is it available from a vendor like Digy key or Allister Mccar?
Thanks in advance for your replay.

[myk777]

myk777
Talked to you and looked at your Quad runner at the Mega squirt seminar in Kent last year. Also read your earlier posts on fabricating the sensors. The question I have regarding the 10x1 metric threaded tube. what is your source?
Do you fabricate it or is it available from a vendor like Digy key or Allister Mccar?
Thanks in advance for your replay.

That was a good time at the megameet... I made the threaded tube on my lathe but you could just buy a bolt and bore out the center.

Mike

[Ollie8974]

I made the threaded tube on my lathe but you could just buy a bolt and bore out the center.

Mike[/quote]

Actually that is what I did. The bolt was drilled by hand, I don't have any fancy fabricating equipment.

[kritip]

A nice package from the US today, my 627's arrived. Very fast UPS delivery considering I ordered friday evening, and they arrived monday morning.

Now, the original VR sensor was 18mm in diameter, so i'm thinking of just getting a M18 bolt drilled out, or one machined up, with a hole drilled right through, or very close to the end. Probably in plastic or ALU.

The recommended circuit states to run a cap from the test pin to GND, so I'll probably embed that in the epoxy as well as hope it's durable and doesn't die on me.

With reference to shielding. Having only used VR before, I know this is very important. With HALL I realise it's not as important. Will it still be best practice to twist the GND and OUTPUT together and run shielded braid over it, or will I just be wasting my time doing so?

Cheers,

Kristian

[kritip]

Gutted an old VR sensor Made a right mess lol

Now just need to pot it. how "fluid" is jb weld? its cheaper than proper potting compound, but not sure if it will flow well enough for the large volume?



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[myk777]

It flows pretty good...use a toothpick to push it all around and get any air bubbles out...then put a piece of tape over the sensor end and sit it upright on the tape to dry, remove the tape when it starts to set up.

[kritip]

I know you have ha no issues but it appears JB Weld is full of ground iron filings, so i may go for something different. Should find something cheap enough nearby

[Peter Florance]

Is alu or some non magnetic metal prefered for the housing?
Kristian

I've used both aluminum and steel, it doesn't seem to have any affect on the sensor.

Mike

Really great work. Be assured that I will raid your knowledge base shown here...

[TT350chevelle]

Gutted an old VR sensor Made a right mess lol

Now just need to pot it. how "fluid" is jb weld? its cheaper than proper potting compound, but not sure if it will flow well enough for the large volume?

A little heat from a hair drier and JB weld flows very well.

Brad J.

[sedd]

I just used the Allegro 627 and made up my own sensor body using tips from below. I had to do this to get the offset I needed to match up with the center of the teeth on the crank sensor. I used a design that allowed me to set the distance to the crank tooth to approx 0.020". I had a perfect signal as shown by tuner studio.

I just started the engine today with great results. It is way too soon to say if my homemade version will stand up to the conditions inside the engine.

[sedd]

FYI

I just changed out the Allegro 627 in favor of a standard GM sensor. The Allegro 627 worked perfectly until I removed it. The only reason to replace it was to get a more standard off the shelf item I could buy from local auto parts stores, versus having to make another.

I had this Allegro 627 installed inside the engine and had potted it with JB Weld higher temp version. I saw no degradation of the part at the sensor tip when I inspected it after removal. I had not ran it for many miles, maybe 1500, so that is not a very long test.

I was having trouble with the o-ring seal around the aluminum housing body, and where it sealed to the front cover insertion hole. I was dropping oil and it got worse with high rpm.

If I had to do it over again, I would come up with a way to mount the sensor wheel external to the engine. The Allegro 627 or GM sensor would be easier to adjust for tip to wheel. I think it would be more reliable when it would not be inside the engine with the hot oil.

[sedd]

I am experimenting with the new GM sensor p/n 12596851 (PC123 at local parts store). I think that it does not need the pull up resistor at R57. My allegro hall sensor went to ground with metal at the sensor tip, the GM version goes high to input voltage with metal at the tip.

[jsbeddow]

To user "sedd'" ,can you give any updates on what you found when experimenting with the stock GM sensor you mentioned? Was a pullup resistor found to be unnecessary? How well did it work with "reasonable" gaps to the trigger wheel? And, did you use the dedicated Hall effect input on the MS2 V3 board, or a tuned version of the VR conditioning input?

[sedd]

I have not been on the forum for quite a while. Sorry for slow response. I didn't install the GM sensor as I got a Cherry sensor to work.

What I found (pretty certain) is that I had a bad connector between the sensors and the wiring. That connector gave an intermittent bad signal and caused me years of issues. I have removed the connector and hard wired the sensor and so far have not had issues with the crank sensor.

I will have to look for details on the GM sensor on the pull up resistor. I can't remember. I will try to look for info and make a note later.

If I had to do this over again, I would use a sensor wheel with less teeth so that the spacing between the teeth would be closer to specifications. I would try to use this GM sensor as I would have the housing machined to accept it. It is a huge hassle to remove the front cover to make that happen so until the Cherry gives issues I will not try that.

[Healey3000]

Here's a few pics of how I build the sensors, it goes pretty fast. First trim and bend the leads, solder on the wires, wrap the sensor in kapton tape and then install some shrink tubing over the wires and pot it with JB weld. I've had the one in my quad running inside the engine bathed in oil for several years, no issues. The one shown is the cam sensor on my quad which needed to be very compact, the thread is a 10x1 metric.

Mike

Hmm, I'm not able to see the images you posted. Do I need to do anything specific other than logging in?

Thanks.

[sedd]

See previous post titled: Sync loss with GM sensor on MS3 3.57. that post has notes below and other data.

The GM sensor noted above CSS123 may not be the right one to use because it appears to use a dual tooth wheel on the GM engine. The wheel has two sets of teeth very close to each other. It might work but I felt the sensing device might not be centered or even have two sensors inside it. This is based on testing by hand and seeing where the magnetic field seemed to be. I believe the number of teeth used on the GM wheel is much less so I also wondered about the frequency capability of that one. The one noted below was being used by EFI Connection (at least as of Oct 2013 time frame) and seems to match up better as it is for a single row set of teeth and I think around 24 teeth. They have an expensive but likely best option for a big block Chevy, with full double row timing chain, sprockets, covers, sensors, etc. I wish I would have used this but it was not available when I built my engine.

the following is mostly from the Oct 2013 post.

I have the sensor on hand that EFI Connection is using. GM 12595966 Delco 213-3906 (2133906), Borg Warner BWD CSS1831, Std Motor Products PC830, Airtex/Wells SU9542. Silvarado 2007-2011, V6, 4.3L. I have not installed this.

EFI Connection is now using a larger diameter wheel, so they have larger tooth dimensions to work from. I am not certain this sensor will work with my smaller wheel. Since this GM sensor would require more machine shop work to get the sensor to fit in my timing chain cover, I am going to wait to see how the Cherry sensor works. It ran all 2014 season with no issues like before. I also didn't get on and off voltage at the sensor output with the GM sensor CSS1831. I had to use a 44K ohm resistor instead of the 1K ohm pull up used for the Cherry. With 1K ohm the voltage stayed around 2.5 volts and went up to 5 volts as metal was placed in front of and taken away from the sensor tip. With 40K pull up, the sensor was around 0.05V and 5V range. The price is the same and delivery times about the same as the Cherry sensor. The GM sensor CSS1831 is not stocked at major auto parts stores, so there is several days wait time and costs for shipping in each case. EFI Connection has them at a reasonable price. I have not tried GM dealers to find out cost or delivery.