BMW M50/S52 full sequential on MS3

[protomor]

I've pieced together an S52 engine but with M50 non vanos bits. So no vanos and a non vanos trigger wheel.

Engine specs:
8.5 CR forged pistons
3.2 liters
forged rods
Ported and polished head
two intake cams
GTR3576 0.82 exhaust housing

I've essentially rehacked a stock E36 wiring harness. For some reason, the only plug i found on the stock harness for the cam sensor has 3 wires and no shielding. Doesn't make much sense to me.

My coolant sensor used to work right. Now it reads 160F most of the time. Probably some setting I messed up.

Right now I'm just trying to get an rpm signal The combo mode didn't show me either cam or crank signal so I switched it to the trigger output. This is what I got:


It doesn't look anywhere near right to me.

So anyway. I have a crank signal but no cam signal. I wonder if my MSQ is missing something or I just need to play swap wires until I get a signal. Any thoughts? I've attached all the files I have for meow.

[franksidebike]

hi

For some reason, the only plug i found on the stock harness for the cam sensor has 3 wires and no shielding. Doesn't make much sense to me.

is that a "Hall" sensor?
frank

[protomor]

all are VR sensors I believe.

[hassmaschine]

M50 NV are VR. M50 Vanos are Hall, and M52 are something else entirely (not hall or VR).

which harness and sensor are you using?

[protomor]

Wait? Seriously? I thought they were all VR. I really don't know what harness or sensor I'm using. I have about 3 parts cars worth of harnesses. Probably E34 (non vanos M50) for the harness. I'm unsure about the sensor. It's probably an S52 one.

*sigh*

[Matt Cramer]

Wait? Seriously? I thought they were all VR. I really don't know what harness or sensor I'm using. I have about 3 parts cars worth of harnesses. Probably E34 (non vanos M50) for the harness. I'm unsure about the sensor. It's probably an S52 one.

*sigh*

Unfortunately, the S52 and M52 use a weird sensor that it seems Siemens went with just to annoy people putting other ECUs on these cars.

[hassmaschine]

Wait? Seriously? I thought they were all VR. I really don't know what harness or sensor I'm using. I have about 3 parts cars worth of harnesses. Probably E34 (non vanos M50) for the harness. I'm unsure about the sensor. It's probably an S52 one.

*sigh*

yeah, you can't use the s52 sensor. I'd get an M50 vanos or an M54 sensor, which are both hall. the M54 sensors are cheap on ebay, around $40 (maybe less, been a couple years). I don't think the harness matters much since you've customized it anyway, as long as you connect the sensor appropriately.

[protomor]

I do have another cam sensor around somewhere. Is there a simple way I can tell them apart?

[hassmaschine]

maybe if they have a part # on them you could cross reference it on realoem or something.

[protomor]

True. I might even just get another crank VR sensor and use that.

update:
So here are all the random differences.

NV cam sensor
12141726590



Vanos cam sensor
12141740959



S52 cam sensor
12141703221


Basically, tell tale for a VR sensor is that is has the nub on it. The other two are flat at the internal sensor point. If not, I can also try to match up the part numbers I posted above. Well this is annoying. At least the new sensor for the NV is $46 unlike the $106 for the other two.

[protomor]

OK! It was a VR sensor. My wiring was just wrong.

I kinda didn't know how to use the trigger checker part of tuner studio but I managed to get this out of it. So I have a cam and crank signal but the rpm gauge still doesn't work. Of course I accidentally turned off the MS while burning values... so i get to reburn firmware and pray I didn't kill anything.

Any thoughts as to why I get no rpm signal? Back to the manual I go.

[protomor]

I tried again today. Managed to get an msq from someone running the same type engine as me. He has the same trigger wheel and cam setup as me with the same sensors to pick up the signals. I'm still getting lots of "not synced" issues with the composite logger. I copied the settings on the ignition settings window all by hand and made sure they were the same. Of course now I'm second guessing which trigger wheel I'm using.

Judging by the logger, is everything hardware wise ok and it's just my settings at this point? I'm hoping that's it.

Edit: Tried the trigger settings for the other trigger wheel type (324) and still no dice.

[protomor]

I'm kind of at a loss. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[hassmaschine]

AFAIK, the non vanos crank trigger wheel is 60-2 (as with all BMWs after motronic 1.1 came out) and the tooth #1 angle is ~84*

I don't have TS on this computer otherwise I'd just look at your MSQ. by type 324 do you mean the crank trigger (inside the block) on OBDII motors?

for now you could just set it to wastead spark/semi-sequential and crank-trigger only, to see if that works and to eliminate some variables. if you can get it running with the crank trigger, adding the cam is pretty trivial.

[protomor]

I took the values for the crank trigger off of this website (http://m54megasquirt3.blogspot.com/2011 ... tings.html)
The M52/S52 crank trigger on the outside is the one I'm using. Yes the S52 has one on the inside as well but I'm not using that. No idea why bmw wanted 2 crank triggers.

I'm going to get under the car today and verify which of these two trigger wheels I have. I found 2 non vanos ones lying around in my basement so my assumption is that the one on the car is S52.

I believe I tried running it on just the crank signal with no luck. How specifically do I turn it off? Can't I leave it on sequential and just turn "use the cam" off? I guess that doesn't make any sense huh? I guess turn it onto wasted spark, set it for single wheel and whatever settings else need to be done in the ignition settings?

Although, if I still can't get an rpm signal with that... what does that mean?

[protomor]

http://www.slidewaysonline.com/images/triggers.zip

I found out I'm using an S52 trigger so it's the 324 degree tdc setting should be correct. I decided to try out a new sensor on both tdc settings and log just the trigger. It should give a smooth parabolic like arc but I'm getting this choppy pile of crap. I'm not sure what would cause that. The shielding from the sensor all the way to about 12 inches to the MS is fully shielded.

So annoyed right now.

[jsmcortina]

Take composite logs. Trigger logs aren't that interesting.

Changing the tooth#1 angle will make no difference at this point. (It doesn't change the tooth pattern or sync. It is used later in the code to set the timing.)

James

[hassmaschine]

I took the values for the crank trigger off of this website (http://m54megasquirt3.blogspot.com/2011 ... tings.html)
The M52/S52 crank trigger on the outside is the one I'm using. Yes the S52 has one on the inside as well but I'm not using that. No idea why bmw wanted 2 crank triggers.

I'm going to get under the car today and verify which of these two trigger wheels I have. I found 2 non vanos ones lying around in my basement so my assumption is that the one on the car is S52.

I believe I tried running it on just the crank signal with no luck. How specifically do I turn it off? Can't I leave it on sequential and just turn "use the cam" off? I guess that doesn't make any sense huh? I guess turn it onto wasted spark, set it for single wheel and whatever settings else need to be done in the ignition settings?

Although, if I still can't get an rpm signal with that... what does that mean?

you said you were using the NV trigger wheel and sensor, which is on the front of the crank. but if you're using the S52 trigger/crank wheel, well that's different. :p

[protomor]

Apparently it's the S52 trigger wheel. But the only difference is the btdc degree. The sensors are the same.

[protomor]

So I'm stumped. I can't get an RPM signal. I've tried new VR sensors and playing with the R52 and R56 pots (the zip at the bottom of this post).

Trigger settings don't seem to change anything. Everything I do, i always seem to get a trigger/tooth log like below. What is wrong? Any suggestions?


http://www.slidewaysonline.com/images/logs2.zip