BMW S50B30 dual solenoid Vanos wiring

[BenGTT]

Hello,

I am stuck in the wiring of the second solenoid of a 3.0L single Vanos. I did wire the first one on the VVT output of the MS3X, but how should I do for the second solenoid ? I am missing something.

Thank you.

[jsmcortina]

I've heard of that system, but you'll need to provide a lot more info here before anyone can likely answer.
What is the second solenoid supposed to be doing?

James

[BenGTT]

One of the solenoid seems to be pulling the cam one way when it open the circuit and the other solenoid when opens, pull the other way the cam. I don't have the car here.
I have the green model (single vanos) :



Pressure inside the Vanos seems to be +-100bars

I am searching camshaft position wheel on internet

[jsmcortina]

So this engine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S50#S50B30

This: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VANOS#List ... OS_engines that shows there are four solenoids

Do you have a stock ECU to scope to see what it is doing with the additional solenoids?

James

[BenGTT]

Yes 3.0L S50B30. This engine has 2 solenoid. The M3 3.2L S50B32 has 2 vanos (4 solenoids) for intake and exhaust.

I don't have the ecus but I know there is 2 ecu. One for the engine, and one only for the Vanos control. I am almost sure that the Vanos ecu is only adjusting the cam with RPM and TPS.

I sould have more information tomorrow.

[jsmcortina]

The two solenoid (i.e. one per cam) version is supported now.

The four solenoid (two per cam??) is unknown and unsupported.

(Four solenoids for four cams e.g. V10 is supported too.)

James

[JaniM]

Means that I can't drive one vanos which have two solenoids like earlier post has that green picture?
One solenoid moves to retard and second moves to advance direction.
Is there some solution how this can drive? Lookin vvt setup, there is only one output for one cam or should I take
second vvt to use?

[jsmcortina]

We need technical data to understand how it is being controlled before we can make a suggestion.

James

[JaniM]

Here's one descr. I think You have read it before.
Solenoids are on/off style. I'm thinking of use two programmed outputs like spare injectors from expander board.
There is also two cam sensors.

Description of VANOS function (variable camshaft spread) (S50 B30) General VANOS has the task of adjusting the spread of the intake camshaft in a variable manner from advance to retard and vice versa. Opening and closing times for intake camshaft are adjusted between advance and retard in a parallel fashion. The VANOS system is controlled by a dedicated VANOS control unit which is connected by CAN (Controller Area Network) to DME (Digital Engine Electronics) M3.3. In contrast to M50 VANOS, this adjustment is an infinitely variable process. Governed maximum speed of 250 km/h is also controlled by VANOS adjustment unit. Development of this system achieved following objectives:
• Increase in torque in central speed range, increased performance in higher speed range by extended timing intervals
• Less unburnt residual gases at idle speed achieved with smaller spread, thereby improving idle characteristics.
• Catalytic converter reaches operating temperature faster after cold starts
• Reduction of fuel consumption

Operation: VANOS housing contains VANOS compressed-oil pump, two solenoid valves and adjustment cylinder. The VANOS control unit determines the optimum position for the intake camshaft from the throttle valve position signal and the engine speed. Continuous sensing of notched gears by sensors checks the relative angle setting between the intake camshaft (adjustable shaft) and exhaust camshaft (reference shaft), compares this with the specified nominal value and, when required, energizes the solenoid valves. Adjustment of intake camshaft is performed by a control piston which is connected to an adjustable splined shaft. The camshaft and sprocket wheel with integral actuator transmission are connected by splined shaft. When control piston is displaced, splined shaft in actuator transmission rotates camshaft relative to sprocket wheel. Oil pressure required for adjustment is generated by VANOS compressed-oil pump (radial piston pump). Function of VANOS hydraulic system Engine oil pump carries oil to VANOS compressed-oil pump. This pump is driven by exhaust camshaft and develops continuous pressure of 100 bar To develop pressure immediately when a solenoid valve opens, hydraulic system is equipped with an oil accumulator. If a calculation in VANOS control unit calls for a retard adjustment to intake camshaft, solenoid valve 1 remains closed and solenoid valve 2 opens. Note: Valves are closed when de-energized. This means that oil pressure is only developed on reverse side of piston. Control piston in adjustment cylinder moves in direction of tavel and splined shaft rotates camshaft in its retard direction. When engine is started, initially both solenoid valves are closed. Immediately after start, VANOS control unit decides whether camshaft adjustment is actually necessary. At idle speed, intake camshaft points towards its retard setting. If a calculation in VANOS control unit shows that an adjustment in advance setting is required (e.g. full throttle from central speed range), solenoid valve 1 is opened and solenoid valve 2 remains closed. Control piston in adjustment cylinder moves in direction of travel and splined shaft rotates intake camshaft in its advance direction. Once calculated adjustment is terminated, both solenoid valves close and camshaft remains in setting it has reached. Function of VANOS electrical system VANOS control unit uses sensor 1 (exhaust camshaft) and sensor 2 (intake camshaft) in conjunction with notched wheels to determine current setting of the camshaft. Required setting of intake camshaft is calculated from engine-speed signal and throttle-valve position signal. This setting is stored in a characteristics file. If nominal and actual values deviate from one another, an appropriate correction is made. VANOS control unit is capabel of diagnosis work. Using a BMW Service Tester or MoDiC, the non-volatile fault memory can be interrogated.

[jsmcortina]

If a calculation in VANOS control unit calls for a retard adjustment to intake camshaft, solenoid valve 1 remains closed and solenoid valve 2 opens. Note: Valves are closed when de-energized. This means that oil pressure is only developed on reverse side of piston.

That's the key information. We should be able to handle it, but it will take some thought as it is different from the current scheme.

James

[hoveringuy]

If a calculation in VANOS control unit calls for a retard adjustment to intake camshaft, solenoid valve 1 remains closed and solenoid valve 2 opens. Note: Valves are closed when de-energized. This means that oil pressure is only developed on reverse side of piston.

That's the key information. We should be able to handle it, but it will take some thought as it is different from the current scheme.

James

Conceptually they are quite different than single VANOS. In my single VANOS implementation one solenoid both drains and fills the cam so that when a static cam position is required, a PWM signal is still active to maintain the required amount of oil pressure to the cam.

In the dual-solenoid setup, one solenoid is drain and the other is fill. When the cam is in the required position both of the solenoids can be de-energized and the cam will be locked in that position indefinately.

It should be relatively simple logic to convert.

[JaniM]

Are these solenoids open at same time ever?

[BenGTT]

I do have some difficulties to find docs and also don't have the car to test but yes the solenoids seems to be both open in some region of the engine range. I would like to try generic output to control them but I still have not the car to see what it does.

[thokes82]

http://ubuntuone.com/7ksriWEN01qDD0cZHp4NKr
Here a principle drawing of the hydraulic system.

This one is a german doc. From Page 22 is a description. let me know if you need help in any translation:
http://ubuntuone.com/0RsnRDrH2ftnzVltTFPo9P

Edit: The doc says the valves are never open at the same time. but during crank and allways when the Vanos is not moving they are both closed.

[JaniM]

Have this S-model middle position or would it go fully advance when it get signal to go?
So should it drive by pwm-style proportionally? Then all is clear.
4 A is current whit these solenoids.

[thokes82]

It is no PWM, it is a timed switch. Moving from one extreme position to the other takes approx. 200 ms.
The valves know only open and closed state.
it moves to any position by opening only a few milliseconds one or the other valve. it is closed loop as it is measuring the timing. there are 8 notches on each cam vr.

[JaniM]

Ok thanks, that helps a lot. So it can drive directly by programmed outputs.
Next it have to test how that works.

[BenGTT]

Thank you for those usefull documentation. It should be ok for the translation
It might be usefull for adding this VVT mode to the MS3.

[cstefan]

hello mates, any update on this to make it work?