Ms3 with ms3x k24a2 engine (from acura tsx)

[Barton]

ok, that is useful just when tuning, I didn't use it before because I was using an oem longblock, but now we got stage 3 camshaft etc etc, and the low cam and high cam tuning (ve, spk and vtc angle) are very diferent so having two maps for each parameter like the hondata has would be lovely, because you can change the vtec engagement point without needing to tune those spots again, the honda guys always tell me that, and now with this cam I notice they are needed.

[CRSTune]

You can program a loop with the same parameters as your VTEC output. Then you can enable table switching via the loop parameter.

[Barton]

where can I find documentation about loops? of course better than the TS help can give.

they are closed loops so: what do I do with the feedback sensor parameter?

in the input pin of the table switch shows loop 1, 2 and 3, and the generic closed loops are A and B, how to know how are they related?

thanks man

[CRSTune]

It's not a that kind of loop (closed loop).

Section 7.8.23.4
http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/ms3 ... 1.4.1.html

Program loop 1 with the same activation parameters you have set for VTEC engagement.

[Barton]

OK thank you very much that will work for now.

But the idea to add those honda parameters would be excellent.

[Barton]

ok I got a problem, I tuned the car with no problems, but were not getting good power, so I put the exhaust cam gear at 0º (it was set to +4º because the 107º center lobe of this cam, skunk2 tuner 3) this is not a k24 it is a k20z3, now i'm getting sync lost 88 and I did no change anything else just the exhaust cam angle.

what is sync lost 88??

another thing, with the k24 and this k20 with an old code (1.3.x) I was not able tu run Coil on plug, I had to use wasted cop, after i update tu 1.4.1 with the k20z3 and the skunk2 tuner 3 wit the 107º center lobe I was able tu run coil on plug but after I put the cam gear to 0º the car never started and when I changed to wasted cop the car started but with sync lost reason 88.

Need some help please

[Barton]

here is the msq

ms3 with ms3x and 1.4.1

[nyborggarage]

Hi guys. Hope it's ok that i post here.

Did you guys use VVT/VTC?

If so, how did you wire intake/exhast sensors? Exhast to Cam Sensor on the MS3X, and Intake to the PT4?

Also, do yourself know if pull-up resistors are needed?

About the post above: if you remove the trigger wheel on the intake and exhaust, and then grind off the locating-key inside them, that will make it possible to adjust them so that the timing marks align even if you adjust the cam (or if the cam is poorly machine, as this often will give you synch problems).

[Barton]

Hi guys. Hope it's ok that i post here.

Did you guys use VVT/VTC?

If so, how did you wire intake/exhast sensors? Exhast to Cam Sensor on the MS3X, and Intake to the PT4?

Also, do yourself know if pull-up resistors are needed?

About the post above: if you remove the trigger wheel on the intake and exhaust, and then grind off the locating-key inside them, that will make it possible to adjust them so that the timing marks align even if you adjust the cam (or if the cam is poorly machine, as this often will give you synch problems).

I used the datalog in for the intake but I had to remove a capacitor, you can use pt4 yes with a pull up.

[nyborggarage]

Hi guys. Hope it's ok that i post here.

Did you guys use VVT/VTC?

If so, how did you wire intake/exhast sensors? Exhast to Cam Sensor on the MS3X, and Intake to the PT4?

Also, do yourself know if pull-up resistors are needed?

About the post above: if you remove the trigger wheel on the intake and exhaust, and then grind off the locating-key inside them, that will make it possible to adjust them so that the timing marks align even if you adjust the cam (or if the cam is poorly machine, as this often will give you synch problems).

I used the datalog in for the intake but I had to remove a capacitor, you can use pt4 yes with a pull up.

Awesome, thanks.

Pull Up on all three I asume then?

Also, how did you setup the VVT settings. Seems like "main cam" is the only option for Input in the CAM1 settings (see photo).

Did you set it up with number of vvts=2, but only use CAM2?

Someone else had asked the same question in a different thread, but there was no reply.

[Barton]

Pull Up on all three I asume then?

yes, the three sensors need pull up

Also, how did you setup the VVT settings. Seems like "main cam" is the only option for Input in the CAM1 settings (see photo).

Did you set it up with number of vvts=2, but only use CAM2?

Someone else had asked the same question in a different thread, but there was no reply.

Yes, exactly that way!

[nyborggarage]

Awesome, thanks!

[revvhappy]

A note to anyone who finds this thread. It's December of 2020.

There is a glitch in the software of the MS3 that affects ignition timing for the K24. Symptoms are exactly as described in this thread - lack of power especially in the low-mid rpm, and possibly the issues with initial timing. I found a tuner who added a "supplemental" ignition table that provides 20 degrees of additional ignition advance across the board and my engine came alive (at least 40 hp and 40 lb-ft from 1500-6000 rpm). I hope to work with DIY Autotune for a software update in the near future.

Original tune on DIY dyno (Dynapak):



Baseline (dotted, original tune) vs new tune with additional advance (Mustang dyno)



And back on the DIY dyno with new tune:

[jsmcortina]

A note to anyone who finds this thread. It's December of 2020.

There is a glitch in the software of the MS3 that affects ignition timing for the K24

I have discussed this with Ben @ DIY previously. I tested the firmware and was not able to replicate a fault.

James

[revvhappy]

Fair enough. I was just sharing my story so others with the same issue might find the solution online a little easier. If that's not appropriate please delete my posts.

[jsmcortina]

Fair enough.

Well not really. If there is a code problem it needs finding and fixing, but without data and conditions to replicate it I'm left blind and unable to resolve.

James

[revvhappy]

Ben @ DIY has offered to take my car for a week and see if he can find anything. Is there anything that he can look for in the tune or datalogs, or any questions that I can offer to guide the discussion? I can't begin to understand the complexity of writing software that controls so many parameters with 3D maps.

Thank you for continuing the discussion. The K-series engines are becoming the gold standard for 4-cylinder swaps.

[Yoan]

Hi,

Sorry reviving an old thread; let me start with my code version and engine : 1.4.1 (MS3x) K24A2.

I'm having similar issues as many described in this thread, and also other threads that have been forwarded to this thread. I have been reading this thread since before I started my project and had hoped 1.4.1 would be smooth sailing.

Car won't start in COP, only wasted COP, even if I put COP and add 360degrees trigger offset.
VVT2 error flashing when car is running.
Car won't accelerate much, it revs ok on throttle blips after I played with my accell enrich and gave it a bunch of ign advance (it seems to love timing); but mainly it seems to run super retarded and won't go past 5000rpm and 3k+rpm it runs like s***.

It seemed like it loved timing but; (I'm having difficulties getting a timing light reading with coil on plugs, when I place a spark plug wire in the coil as an extension etc... trying to see the mark with wasted cop is harder than I hoped it would be (Still working on getting a timing light reading, I just thought I probe the thread and see what comes up), BTW it seemed to have no spark (or the rare spark) in COP as opposed to wasted COP.

I have intake CAM (VVT reference in PT4) and followed settings people have used successfully in this thread.

I'm not concerned with VVT for now, I'm more concerned in figuring out the power situation and ignition timing situation, I'm worried of the ''glitch'' mentioned earlier.

Posted datalog(s), they all have similar issues (won't make any power at WOT and breaks up 4500+rpm), just trying to dial in the fueling somewhat for mid-range when boost comes in. (wasn't able to upload my project backup?)

I'm sorry I do not have a Engine log on hand and I realize it could be very useful; working on it.

P.S. My datalog and tune can seem weird (been trying to tune the fueling despite my other issues) and yes, I'm running staged injection, I have 8 injectors, stock TSX injectors in the ports for drivability, cruising, idle etc. and developed my own dual plenum intake manifold with secondary LS decapped injectors in an up-runner location after first plenum equalization for charge air cooling and better atomisation out of large injectors (just me nerding out on crazy ideas for fun). Also running GM truck 3 bolt throttle body with GM TPS and IACV and crazy fuel pressure; maybe we can ignore that stuff for now if it's deemed irrelevant to my issues.

Thanks a lot for your time. I haven't had much success with MS stuff that wasn't out of the box like LS plug and play but I'm not discouraged even though my friends are pressuring towards big bucks EFI. Lets prove them wrong shall we?

[jsmcortina]

For a start, upgrade your ECU to current firmware. 1.4.1 was superceded a number of years ago.

James

[Yoan]

For a start, upgrade your ECU to current firmware. 1.4.1 was superceded a number of years ago.

James

Thanks, sometimes we have so much stuff going on in a fresh build we miss the obvious.

Will keep you updated with more files including engine log.