MS3X A4 1.8T Quattro Running and partically mapped

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T3Bunny
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by T3Bunny »

Drunken_M wrote:Can you help me with setting the right settings in the .msq?....


:RTFM:

You really do need to take some more time and really read through it. Just sending the .msq over will not solve all your issues. Just because you have an .msq from another motor like yours... If we take lets say 5 IDENTICAL VW motors, but the MegaSquirts are wired up 5 different ways, it is very likely none of the .msq's will work on the other motors. You need to triple check your outputs and inputs and make sure they are going to the right spots and your .msq is setup accordingly.

Your pictures were not easy for me to tell on proper placement of all your jumpers, but I do see some questionable things. Go over your soldering closely and make sure you have all the parts well soldered. I see a few components with gaps an spaces in the vias. I am not saying this to be mean, but with what I see on the soldering inside and outside the ECU, I think you really need to take some time to clean it up. I would not be surprised, if that is where your issue lies.

Take a super good look at your ECU plug too. I see stray wire strands, any of those shorting to another pin, could cause some very hard problems to trace down. At the very least, all your sensor and power wires should be individually heatshrunk over the ECU connector pins.
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T3Bunny
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by T3Bunny »

BTW, if you can take a moment to describe all your jumpers inside the ECU, since I can't make them all out, if I have a moment tomorrow I will see if I can find anything amiss. And it will also help the others watching this thread too!
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by Drunken_M »

The soldering iron used for the wires outside was horrible, the results altso got horrible. But i can for sure clean it up a bit and heat shrink the pins, put im pretty sure none of the wires arent touching any other pins.

The only jumpers i have made now is tackselect to vrout and tsel to vrout.
And i can try to resolder a bit, i know its not looking great, but every component should have a good connection and not shorted to anything else. But you never know.

I know that its not always as easy as just loading another .msq, but as far as i know i have wired everything like the engine running this .msq, and have the same sensors.

I know a bit about what setup i have to use, but im not trusting myself that it would be right, and mabye i will blame the ecu even though there is something wrong in the .msq
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by prof315 »

Looking at your pictures I see the problem. You have installed the trim pots R52 and R56 backwards. Also did you run a jumper from s12c to JS9? The issue with the trim pots can be dealt with in 2 ways, the easiest being turn them fully CLOCKWISE instead of counterclockwise. The other way is to remove them and install them correctly or replace them if they are damaged in the removal process (likely).
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by Drunken_M »

No, i forgot the s12c to js9, whould i do this?
I will just turn the pots the other way around, instead of breaking them when desoldering them.
And thanks alot prof, you really know these circuits :)
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by prof315 »

Drunken_M wrote:No, i forgot the s12c to js9, whould i do this?
I will just turn the pots the other way around, instead of breaking them when desoldering them.
And thanks alot prof, you really know these circuits :)
The jumper from s12c to js9 is needed to power the stepper driver and (I _think_) other things on the MS3 daughterboard.

Glad to help, I've installed the trim pots upside down before myself.....
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by T3Bunny »

prof315 wrote:Glad to help, I've installed the trim pots upside down before myself.....
Good catch Prof! Heck I think most of us that have built more than a couple ECU's eventually make that mistake.... -=cough=-

There is a trick to soldering the ECU plug and wires.

1) Fill all the solder cups on the plug first. This is super easy to do on the bench using helping hands holder (if you haven't already soldered to the car hehe).
2) Then, using good wire strippers, strip only 1/8th" (3-4 mm)
3) and solder it. Get a slight solder bulge on the wire. This is just soaking/filling the wire and not soldering to the ECU plug...
4) Place the heatshrink on the wire and slide out of the way
5) Secure the ECU plug. In the car, I use one of these:
Image
(I hemmed and hawed about getting this little guy for a while, and I paid a lot for it too (about $30usd). My boss saw me use it once, bought one the next time the tool truck showed up. He also thought it was a silly gimmichy tool, until he watched me use it!)
6) With the plug secured, hold the wire right outside of the cup. Using a GOOD soldering iron, touch the wire and heat it up as you slide it into the cup.
7) Remove soldering iron when all is in place and DO NOT wiggle the wire. It will be hot. If you move that wire in the first couple seconds, it will break the solder joint and make a "cold solder" connection. If the wire shifted, hit it again with the iron tip, while holding the wire in place. If you have to, add just a touch of solder. Be careful though as the wire will want to fly out when you do, if your not holding it. Also it is very easy to get too much solder and bridge over to another pin.
8) After wire has cooled a little, slide that heatshrink down and make sure it only covers that pin and doesn't catch one on the other side.

When I say GOOD soldering iron, you really need to have one with a good tip. The amount of time it takes to build one of these ECU's and wire them in, spend the scratch for a good iron. I use a ESD and temperature controlled soldering station with changeable high quality tips. Even when soldering in the car. I have had good luck using Weller soldering irons. I would "think" a 20watt iron would be a good one to use. Don't try and use a big clunky soldering gun.
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by Drunken_M »

Prof, you made my day! Actually my 25th birtday today :)
Now i have cam and crank signal :)

T3bunny, i actually have that tool somewhere, and its really underrated, it makes it a whole lot easier.
I have several soldering irons, but i only found the bad one, but i have borrowed one from work now.
But the wires i have used was to big, thats why there are sticking out some coils on the ground wires. But i will fix this now, and also use crimping hose. But thanks for the tips :)
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by T3Bunny »

Sweet glad to hear you have RPM, and happy birthday!

If your careful, you can solder 16g wire easily to the plug that way without "flyoff whiskers". Bigger 14g can be done too, but that gets much trickier... Most Automotive OEM wire will be smaller 18-22g.
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by prof315 »

Drunken_M wrote:Prof, you made my day! Actually my 25th birtday today :)
Now i have cam and crank signal :)

T3bunny, i actually have that tool somewhere, and its really underrated, it makes it a whole lot easier.
I have several soldering irons, but i only found the bad one, but i have borrowed one from work now.
But the wires i have used was to big, thats why there are sticking out some coils on the ground wires. But i will fix this now, and also use crimping hose. But thanks for the tips :)
Fantastic! and Happy Birthday!
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by Drunken_M »

Thanks guys.
Im just a few steps fron starting the engine now, first problem, the fuel pump doesent start with the ms3 pin37. This is the correct pin for the fuel pump relay ground?
Second problem is that it wont starr when i ground the fuel pump relay and crank it.
It tries to start, and pops sometimes in the exhaust, sometimes it sounds like it almost starting for a sec.
I have done the tps calibration and fuel req calculation.
Iat show 21c thats pretty correct, but clt shows 82c.
Could it be that the clt is calibrated wrong?
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Re: MS3X 1.8T got trigger signal, but fuel pumpt not running

Post by Drunken_M »

I have done a few more tries to start it, but it only pops in the intake. Can it be some timing problem, so it fires in the wrong timw shooting out the intake?
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Re: MS3X 1.8T got trigger signal, but fuel pumpt not running

Post by jsmcortina »

Is the timing correct on your strobe?

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Re: MS3X 1.8T got trigger signal, but fuel pumpt not running

Post by prof315 »

Drunken_M wrote:I have done a few more tries to start it, but it only pops in the intake. Can it be some timing problem, so it fires in the wrong timw shooting out the intake?
That is indeed possible.... What are you using as a #1 tooth angle? I have always used 78* with a stock VAG 60-2 trigger wheel, however, on occasion it's necessary to add 360* to that 78 for correct ignition phasing. I needed to do that with the ABA I'm currently running in my Corrado. Also what are you running for coils? If they are stock AEB you need to read this : http://www.msextra.com/doc/general/sparkout.html
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Re: MS3X 1.8T got trigger signal, but fuel pumpt not running

Post by Drunken_M »

Yes, i have set #1 tooth angle to 78. And i use the stock aeb coils with the icm. When you say 360 + 78 degrees, should i put in 438 degrees then? I will read the link now, and thanks again prof :)
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Re: MS3X 1.8T got trigger signal, but fuel pumpt not running

Post by prof315 »

Try running in wasted COP mode first if the car runs in wasted COP then try 438* as the #1 tooth angle. Also I assume you are running stock injectors? Are you sure you of their size? 1.8Ts have 2 different injectors that I know of, 30lb/hr with a 3bar pressure regulator and 21lb/hr with a 4 bar regulator. The required fuel setting is a bit different between the 2.
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Re: MS3X 1.8T got trigger signal, but fuel pumpt not running

Post by Drunken_M »

I got it running now with the 438 degrees. I use stock injectora now, i have aeb with 4 bar fpr.
But i will install 630cc deca injectors now, and try a map i have for these injectors.
Thanks prof, you are the man!
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Re: MS3X 1.8T got trigger signal, but fuel pumpt not running

Post by Drunken_M »

I fired the car now with the 630cc injectors, it worked ok.
But, when the rpm is between 7-800rpm, and 1200rpm and i hit the gas, sometimes the rpm goes to 0rpm for a sec and then reads correct again, and it pops in the exhaust of course. Could this be a tuning/software issuw, or just some problems with the signala from the vr or cam?
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Re: MS3X 1.8T no crank signal

Post by DaveEFI »

T3Bunny wrote:
prof315 wrote:Glad to help, I've installed the trim pots upside down before myself.....
Good catch Prof! Heck I think most of us that have built more than a couple ECU's eventually make that mistake.... -=cough=-

There is a trick to soldering the ECU plug and wires.

1) Fill all the solder cups on the plug first. This is super easy to do on the bench using helping hands holder (if you haven't already soldered to the car hehe).
2) Then, using good wire strippers, strip only 1/8th" (3-4 mm)
3) and solder it. Get a slight solder bulge on the wire. This is just soaking/filling the wire and not soldering to the ECU plug...
4) Place the heatshrink on the wire and slide out of the way
5) Secure the ECU plug.
6) With the plug secured, hold the wire right outside of the cup. Using a GOOD soldering iron, touch the wire and heat it up as you slide it into the cup.
7) Remove soldering iron when all is in place and DO NOT wiggle the wire. It will be hot. If you move that wire in the first couple seconds, it will break the solder joint and make a "cold solder" connection. If the wire shifted, hit it again with the iron tip, while holding the wire in place. If you have to, add just a touch of solder. Be careful though as the wire will want to fly out when you do, if your not holding it. Also it is very easy to get too much solder and bridge over to another pin.
8) After wire has cooled a little, slide that heatshrink down and make sure it only covers that pin and doesn't catch one on the other side.
Other trick is to put some card between the two rows of pins while soldering. Also small gauge solder - 0.7mm - is much easier to use than the1.2mm stuff you get from the corner shop. And of course use leaded - 60/40. Unleaded is the spawn of Satan.
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Re: MS3X 1.8T got trigger signal, but fuel pumpt not running

Post by Drunken_M »

It helped to just us a smaller tip on the soldering iron, i will resolder all of the wires and use shrink hose on them.
But do anyone have an idea of why i suddenly get 0rpm when i touch the gas between 700-1200rpm?
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