1jzvvti sync loss at Low Rpm

[joooeone]

i havent because my cars is not running at the moment but after switching to falling edge dindt have the problem

[joooeone]

theres anoption on ms3x about noise filter you could probably play with it or if some one can tells us how it works that will be perfect.......how is your crack wiring set up i got mine seperated from the other wires it has hes own route with out touching toher wires another thing i was thinking about is that the sync loss migth be cause of the alternator because its to near to the cranck and then is when the noise filter option comes in handy

[radial]

I'm running the stock crank sensor wiring to the first engine harness connector (And custom harness to the MS3 from there). No noise what so ever...at the lowest VR-pot settings! Even with the wiring in between the alternator and block, i have no issues with noise.

I'm running shielded CAM sensor wiring though.....With my coils and injectors just an inch from the cam-wiring, its better to be safe than sorry.



IMO it's strange why the stock MS3X wiring from DIY Autotune does NOT have shielded CAM-wiring as standard..... as Cam sensors with VR are shielded from stock. More expensive standalone systems also use shielded wiring on VR-circuits.

[koa31]

theres anoption on ms3x about noise filter you could probably play with it or if some one can tells us how it works that will be perfect.......how is your crack wiring set up i got mine seperated from the other wires it has hes own route with out touching toher wires another thing i was thinking about is that the sync loss migth be cause of the alternator because its to near to the cranck and then is when the noise filter option comes in handy

Im trying to play with the noise filtering option... Managed to get an extra 300 - 400 rpms. Now losing sync at about 3000 rpms. I will play around with these setting some more. Thanks!

For high speed placement of two zener diodes can solve the problem looks the attached schematic (MS3 V3 board).
It can be mounted outside the box for testing or in place of the jump VRIN.

Board V3.57-changed.pdf

I will look into this. Thanks!

I'm running the stock crank sensor wiring to the first engine harness connector (And custom harness to the MS3 from there). No noise what so ever...at the lowest VR-pot settings! Even with the wiring in between the alternator and block, i have no issues with noise.



I'm running shielded CAM sensor wiring though.....With my coils and injectors just an inch from the cam-wiring, its better to be safe than sorry.



IMO it's strange why the stock MS3X wiring from DIY Autotune does NOT have shielded CAM-wiring as standard..... as Cam sensors with VR are shielded from stock. More expensive standalone systems also use shielded wiring on VR-circuits.

How many teeth are on the 1jzgte non vvti intake cam shaft? Is it also 36-2 with 3 camshaft teeth?

My cam is shielded...

It does make me wonder too sometimes.... I mean as much as it doesn't come with the shielded cam sensor wire, I'm still not going to look at the MS any differently. Lol I hope I don't sound mean or offensive. Its all a learning process for me and all of us who choose to use a Megasquirt on our machines.

[radial]

The non VVT-i has 12 teeth crank (no missing teeth) + 1 tooth cam (two cam teeth available, one at the rear of the cam and one at the middle).
The 12+1 is very simple to set up in MS, and needs no special trigger-code, but it follows the same laws of magnetism in terms of VR polarity as your VVTi.

As with all ms installs...they are all unique. But d*** how much you learn DIY.

[3tc power]

BUMP ..... we need to figure this out!

[koa31]

BUMP ..... we need to figure this out!

Yes we Need too!

[radial]

As joooeone mentioned;
Really just switch polarity on Cam&crank, and play with VR-pots untill it runs as expected. Use the oem wiring diagram and oem pinouts on the VR sensors as guidance.

Its alot easier to configure this right with an oscilloscope, and understanding the basics behind the toothlogger in TS.

If you are using the 10-15 year old oem harness; they are usually full of noise and low quality shielding. I'd always recommend a new DIY harness.

[LordLo]

You will probably want to play with R11 and R32 on the MS3x.

I was running a 2JZGTE cam sensor on my 5SGTE engine and I would lose cam sync at 1600 rpm with R11 and R32 fully counter clockwise.

I had to turn R11 3 turns clockwise and R32 1 turn clockwise to get rid of the noise. Your setup might be a little different, but just use the composite logger on Tunerstudio and keep track of your cam input.

FIY, if you turn it too far clockwise you will also get noise.

[280GE 1JZ]

Hi,

I just want to share a little bit. I recently install MS3+MS3X on 1JZ non vvti without any added resistor or else. I also use the same setup for the previous 1Jz non vvti running 6 Race coils and also no resistor. MS3pro to 2jz vvti and 1jz vvti also no resistor.

1. I wired pin no. 1 on crank/cam connector to ecu input, pin no.2 to sensor ground
2. on ms3x You have to pull out the jumper on JP7
3. turn alll the adjusting resistor on main board and ms3x to counter clockwise
3. set spark mode to "2jz vvti"
4. use rising edge on capture
5. spark output to "going high"
6. timing lock the engine as soon as it runs and turn the fixed advance option back to "use table"

Well, I hope it helps. Cheers

[koa31]

Hi,

I just want to share a little bit. I recently install MS3+MS3X on 1JZ non vvti without any added resistor or else. I also use the same setup for the previous 1Jz non vvti running 6 Race coils and also no resistor. MS3pro to 2jz vvti and 1jz vvti also no resistor.

1. I wired pin no. 1 on crank/cam connector to ecu input, pin no.2 to sensor ground
2. on ms3x You have to pull out the jumper on JP7
3. turn alll the adjusting resistor on main board and ms3x to counter clockwise
3. set spark mode to "2jz vvti"
4. use rising edge on capture
5. spark output to "going high"
6. timing lock the engine as soon as it runs and turn the fixed advance option back to "use table"

Well, I hope it helps. Cheers

Gave This a try, Still Losing sync around 1800 reason 84 and 85. I just wish I could Find Out what reason 84 and 85 are and attack the issue.
I converted it back to Last post MSQ. Attached a Datalog of the rising capture edge.

You will probably want to play with R11 and R32 on the MS3x.

I was running a 2JZGTE cam sensor on my 5SGTE engine and I would lose cam sync at 1600 rpm with R11 and R32 fully counter clockwise.

I had to turn R11 3 turns clockwise and R32 1 turn clockwise to get rid of the noise. Your setup might be a little different, but just use the composite logger on Tunerstudio and keep track of your cam input.

FIY, if you turn it too far clockwise you will also get noise.

I Will give this a try ASAP!!!


Thanks Alot Gentlemen!

[Matt Cramer]

Those are decoder-specific reasons, and pretty much "the signal doesn't match what was expected." Do you have a composite log showing the loss of sync?

[koa31]

Those are decoder-specific reasons, and pretty much "the signal doesn't match what was expected." Do you have a composite log showing the loss of sync?

I do. Attached is a Composite log Taken 2 minutes ago. This is it set back to the last uploaded msq with Falling edge capture input.

Thanks!

[Matt Cramer]

Looks like a phantom tooth in the gap - have you tried a 10K resistor inline with the VR sensor positive wire?

[koa31]

Looks like a phantom tooth in the gap - have you tried a 10K resistor inline with the VR sensor positive wire?

Yes I tried a 10k resistor in line with Sensor positive for Cam sensor. I have not tried with the crank.

[Barton]

if you have not change anything from this ( 2013-11-12_20.28.49.csv Falling edge.csv) composite log do this:

change your input ignition capture.
you cam input capture is OK!
if you still get the problem try with de 1k to anything (in steps of 1k-2k ohm) in series to +vr of your crank signal, remember your cam signal seems ok! but your crank signal does not!

[Matt Cramer]

Looks like a phantom tooth in the gap - have you tried a 10K resistor inline with the VR sensor positive wire?

Yes I tried a 10k resistor in line with Sensor positive for Cam sensor. I have not tried with the crank.

The problem appears to be with the crank signal. You can tell because the the red sync loss bar shows up at the missing tooth.

[koa31]

if you have not change anything from this ( 2013-11-12_20.28.49.csv Falling edge.csv) composite log do this:

change your input ignition capture.
you cam input capture is OK!
if you still get the problem try with de 1k to anything (in steps of 1k-2k ohm) in series to +vr of your crank signal, remember your cam signal seems ok! but your crank signal does not!

Soo 1k at 1/4 watt and keep adding until I see results

Looks like a phantom tooth in the gap - have you tried a 10K resistor inline with the VR sensor positive wire?

Yes I tried a 10k resistor in line with Sensor positive for Cam sensor. I have not tried with the crank.

The problem appears to be with the crank signal. You can tell because the the red sync loss bar shows up at the missing tooth.

Soo should I add a resistor inline with the crank? Should it be added right before the MS? or Right after the Crank plug?

[Barton]

add the resistor where is easier for you, and you will have results but you'll need to be adding until you get your rev limiter where you wanted.

example: if you want your rev limiter at 7000rpm add resistance until it limits there without any error.

[koa31]

Alright guys.

Sorry for the late reply, got a caught with school and work. Finally got some time to give this resistor thing a try. I tried the 10k resistor and it worked perfectly. I hadto take away the noise filtering for it to work properly.

I totally ignored another fellow early that told me earlier to do this....

Special thanks to all how posted on this thread. I wouldn't of got anywhere with them.

You guys are awesome! If anyone needs any assistance or questions please dont be afraid to post on here or PM me.