DIS twin turbo 408w fuel and igntiotn help

[Mattdillon2092]

I will begin a twin turbo 408w build soon and i want to run MS3 so i can tune at the track. I want to run a distributorless system with coil on plugs like chevy. I want the coils to mount on the valve covers. Can anyone point me in the right dirrection? Can i run water injection for the turbo with MS3? Ive searched for about a week now for a thread on something documenting this type of build. The only thing ive found is the edis builds. Can someone share a parts list of parts i would need to make this happen. Thanks in advance.

[dark star]

You need to build(or buy) a trigger wheel setup for the crank so the MS3 has a tach input. http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/trigger-wheel.html

From the MS3 manual:
Retrofit

If you have an engine that did not originally come equipped with a trigger wheel (e.g. a distributor based, pre-EFI engine) then you have to mount a wheel and sensor and set the phasing correctly.
For a typical car engine - go for a 36-1 wheel on the crank for non-sequential.
or a 36-1 wheel on the crank and a 50/50 cam tooth with gear-tooth hall sensor for full sequential
60-2 works great on most engines too, but is not advised for very high rpms.
For very high revving engines (such as motorcycle engines) due to the number of teeth per second, 36-1, 24-1 or 12-1 are preferred.

While the code can cope with any sensor/tooth phasing, during cranking the rpms vary up and down greatly as the engine rotates. It is desireable to place the missing tooth such that it passes the sensor when the engine is somewhat stable. The OEMs have found that certain tooth#1 angles work well and it is worth following their lead.

It is suggested to align your wheel and sensor to arrive at the following tooth #1 angles. (See later for explanation of tooth#1.)
4 cylinders ~90-120 deg
6 cylinders ~50 deg
8 cylinders ~40 deg

Take a look at the EDIS pages for places to source used trigger wheels, sensors and coilpacks. Note that you do NOT need the EDIS module, so later ('internal-EDIS') cars are useful donors too.

Mounting the wheel is quite critical in that it MUST be mounted so it rotates without moving up, down, left or right as the sensor needs to see all of the teeth with a gap of 0.75 - 1.0mm.

Having mounted the wheel and sensor, you can proceed for an existing install.

Something similar to this:

[jrods2]

ok I understand the phasing of the crank wheel to top dead center, I understand the need for the starter to get the engine up to approx. 600 rpm for the unit to be able to read the pulses on the CAS. What I don't get is the number of teeth in relation to TDC, I've seen 40 deg., 50 deg. & 60 deg. mentioned in the manuals. I have a high torque Mitsubishi mini starter that brings the RPM up to 600 right now. There's absolutely no hydraulic of the engine when it first starts to rotate. The for EDIS ?Ford states 40 deg. but earlier in the manual it states 50 deg. Which do I set.40.50.60? I'm thinking 50. I will be machining the keyway in the trigger wheel so I don't get a second chance.

[billr]

Whoa there...

That's an old thread you are scabbing onto, do you even have the same type of engine and MS as the OP??? You would be better served by starting a new thread.

There is no need to crank at 600 rpm! Most engines crank in the 100-300 rpm range. Generally, the missing-tooth position doesn't matter all that much, any of those (40, 50, or 60) can work fine; or pretty much any other angle. That's well-covered in the manual, I'm sure. Start a new thread, tell us what you have (including type of trigger intended) and we can help better.

[jrods2]

Whoa there...

That's an old thread you are scabbing onto, do you even have the same type of engine and MS as the OP??? You would be better served by starting a new thread.

There is no need to crank at 600 rpm! Most engines crank in the 100-300 rpm range. Generally, the missing-tooth position doesn't matter all that much, any of those (40, 50, or 60) can work fine; or pretty much any other angle. That's well-covered in the manual, I'm sure. Start a new thread, tell us what you have (including type of trigger intended) and we can help better.

Thanks Bill, You answered my question. I'm building a 390 cid ford FE supercharged engine, I've got all the parts I need and I'm getting ready to install the crank trigger wheel, I will have to fabricate a sensor bracket but will do that when the trigger wheel is in place. I plan to install the sensor within 30 degs. of the top dead center bracket, I have a lot of room there and it will be easier to access it there if need be. I'm trying to figure out where the missing tooth will be located in relation to top dead center. I will machine the trigger wheel so it will be keyed to the cranks original keyway. I don't want to miss this machined keyway. I'm not positive about cranking rpm but it is really good and the engine fires quickly.
I'm assuming that if I time the trigger wheel so it is in the vicinity of where I want to put the sensor then all will be ok. Is there anything else I'm missing? Jerrold

[billr]

" It is desirable to place the missing tooth such that it passes the sensor when the engine
speed is somewhat stable or it may be impossible for the ECU to "see" the missing tooth. The OEMs have found
that certain tooth#1 angles work well and it is worth following their lead"

That is an excerpt from the manual (about page 124 of basic MS3/V3.0), and I think it is clearer than even the diagrams that follow it. The manual goes on to state a common OEM angle for V-8s is "~40 deg."

The sensor bracket can be placed at any "clocking" that is convenient for you, but you should key the trigger wheel to maintain the relationship indicated (as stated above0 from the manual. Again, it is not critical what that angle is exactly, you are just trying to set the sensor/wheel timed so that the missing-tooth (you are using that, right) is being detected during a relatively "quiet" zone of crank rotation (least compression effects). It's a pretty wide target, not even really a need for precision keying of the wheel.