MS3x settings problem and sync loss reason

[eraezer]

Hello,
m engine is running pretty good and so far it seems reliable since I've been using it almost everyday this year between
april/may to september. I ran out of fuel so I upgraded my fuel system.

But there are some stuff that I don't like and I hope to get some help, atleast with the MS parts

My biggest problem is the fuel consumption which is about 1.7 liter/10 km and that is around 14 mpg.
This is alot in my oppinion. It's about 0.7 liter more than with my old setup.
Since that setup I've upgraded to sequential fuel and ignition, COP, higher CR and a better flowing turbo.
Those upgrades came together with an complete engine rebuild which included new bearings, gaskets and seals everywhere.

My Spark duration is set at 0.1 ms but should be around 1,0 ms. How do I determine this? What happens when this setting is too low?
I have not yet heard any knock but if my CR calculations are correct I think I should hear some with the timing table I'm using.
Is it possible that the low spark duration time makes the coils fire a weak spark? And because of this I can run more advance?

In my datalogs I get this "Lost sync reason: 11" but nothing shows up in composite logger. I'm using shielded wire bought from
DIYautotune.com which has two leads so one of the leads in each is connected to the ground pin in the CAS.
I have not yet tried a shunt resistor, could this help? Or could it have something to do with my spark duration time?

I'm having some strange AFR behavior and I think the WBO2 sensor can have something to do with this. I bought it in 2008 but started using it in 2010. But I've been using it every summer since then. The sensor stopped responding one time during this summer. I'm ordering a new one to be on the safe side.

Megasquirt info:
MS3+MS3X fully sequential with stock CAS (shielded wires)
A dual VR board, no shunt resistor so far
ms3-release-1.2.3

Car info:
Toyota supra mk3 1989

Engine spec:
7M-GTE
Arias 83.5 mm pistons (0.5 mm overdimension)
Eagle con. rods
Brian Crower valve springs
Brian Crower stage 2 cams, 264 deg. (10 deg. and 1mm more than stock)
Upgraded oil pump
HKS 3.0 mm MLS headgasket
Ported head
Should be around 8.8:1 or 9:1 in CR
Siemens deka 630 cc High imp injectors
Aeromotive FPR
No fuel pump resistor och injector resistor pack (stock parts)
1ZZ-FE COP driven directly of MS3X outputs
KKK K-27 turbo
Driftmotion T4 exhaust manifold
homemade T4-T3 adapter
Innovate LC-1 WBO2

Dropbox link for logfile, msq and comp log: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aqumo914q4ycqnt/s2y3gnWjlo

Thanks for looking!

[Barton]

change your spark duration to 0.7ms

you need tu retune your ve table, your problem is there your afr is not good almost at any point, if you are going to do it please use don't include afr target it is in basic settings/general settings.

I saw the sync loss, are the pots completely turned anticlockwise? if they aren't please do it or make a several test turning them step by step.

[wrenchdad]

You didn't mention what version firmware you are running?

wd

[eraezer]

I've added som MS info and WBO2 info in my first post.

Barton:
Is there a particular reason for using 0.7 ms?

I've been using either ve analyse live or offline almost every time I've driven the car. So I'm suspecting that my WBO2 sensor is going bad due to milage, age and odd behavior (stopped working).

I'm using a dual-VR board so the "stock" MS conditioners are bypassed.

wrenchdad:
I'm using stable release 1.2.3

[Barton]

well thinking about that it wouldn't make any difference, because you have a low rpm engine with cop, that feature is for engines that have distributor with many cylinders ( like a v8) or high rpm engines (like a fiat 8v). anyway I use 0.7 to 1ms like the manual says and every time has work perfectly even in a 9000rpm 4g63 with wasted spark.


well you got an issue there, maybe you have a leak (hose, injectors,etc) but you need to check your wideband, do this test pull out the sensor and turn the wideband gauge on, the sensor will go hot and the reading would be --- to the lean side, then take a piece of cloth with gasoline an cover the tip of the sensor, it will go --- but for the rich side, if that happends your sensor is ok.

this datalog says your ve table is not ok, even I saw 17psi of with with afr 12.2, if you don't have a race gas that is not ok.

[wrenchdad]

Hello,
m engine is running pretty good and so far it seems reliable since I've been using it almost everyday this year between
april/may to september. I ran out of fuel so I upgraded my fuel system.

But there are some stuff that I don't like and I hope to get some help, atleast with the MS parts

My biggest problem is the fuel consumption which is about 1.7 liter/10 km and that is around 14 mpg.
This is alot in my oppinion. It's about 0.7 liter more than with my old setup.
Since that setup I've upgraded to sequential fuel and ignition, COP, higher CR and a better flowing turbo.
Those upgrades came together with an complete engine rebuild which included new bearings, gaskets and seals everywhere.

My Spark duration is set at 0.1 ms but should be around 1,0 ms. How do I determine this? What happens when this setting is too low?
I have not yet heard any knock but if my CR calculations are correct I think I should hear some with the timing table I'm using.
Is it possible that the low spark duration time makes the coils fire a weak spark? And because of this I can run more advance?

In my datalogs I get this "Lost sync reason: 11" but nothing shows up in composite logger. I'm using shielded wire bought from DIYautotune.com which has two leads so one of the leads in each is connected to the ground pin in the CAS.I have not yet tried a shunt resistor, could this help? Or could it have something to do with my spark duration time?

I'm having some strange AFR behavior and I think the WBO2 sensor can have something to do with this. I bought it in 2008 but started using it in 2010. But I've been using it every summer since then. The sensor stopped responding one time during this summer. I'm ordering a new one to be on the safe side.

Megasquirt info:
MS3+MS3X fully sequential with stock CAS (shielded wires)
A dual VR board, no shunt resistor so far
ms3-release-1.2.3

Car info:
Toyota supra mk3 1989

Engine spec:
7M-GTE
Arias 83.5 mm pistons (0.5 mm overdimension)
Eagle con. rods
Brian Crower valve springs
Brian Crower stage 2 cams, 264 deg. (10 deg. and 1mm more than stock)
Upgraded oil pump
HKS 3.0 mm MLS headgasket
Ported head
Should be around 8.8:1 or 9:1 in CR
Siemens deka 630 cc High imp injectors
Aeromotive FPR
No fuel pump resistor och injector resistor pack (stock parts)
1ZZ-FE COP driven directly of MS3X outputs
KKK K-27 turbo
Driftmotion T4 exhaust manifold
homemade T4-T3 adapter
Innovate LC-1 WBO2

Dropbox link for logfile, msq and comp log: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/aqumo914q4ycqnt/s2y3gnWjlo

Thanks for looking!

Ok, took a look at your MSQ and log files, just a couple of questions, the above underlined about spark duration, why would you change it from the default? As the other posted suggested, put it back to 0.7 to 1.0 and leave it alone.

Second underlined, why did you ground your sensors to the ground pin in the CAS? Sensor grounds/returns should come back to the MS unit connector at the sensor ground point, that may clear up your sync # 11 errors.

Other than those two things, I can't see anything in my quick look, just your VE map needs more tuning that will help with your gas mileage.

hope this helps
wd

[eraezer]

Hello again,
now I finally have time to upload my newest log files which are from 2013-12-13 after changing the spark duration from 0.1 to 0.7 ms.
Here is a link to a dropbox folder containing the files: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/o6y1b48v4c8sm4m/sJepQfaVLd
In the csv file one can see at #155 there are too many sync tooth. This corresponds to the sync loss reason 11.

Wrench dad:
The reason why I changed the spark duration from a default value was because I were troubleshooting a missfire I had with my old coil setup (stock wasted spark coils). This turned out to be a crack in one of the coil casings. After that I forgot to change back the duration.

I might have been a bit unclear. There are three pins in my cas, pri. trigger (1), sec. trigger(2) and ground(3).
Each shielded wire has two leads.
The first wire leads are connected to (1) and (3) in one end and dual-VR board and sensor ground in the MS end.
The second wire leads are connected to (2) and (3) in one end and dual-VR board and sensor ground in the MS end.
Both shields are connected to MS sensor ground.
Is this wrong?


Any further help is very much appreciated. And let me know if you can't get into the dropbox folder.

[eraezer]

I also noticed in the regular log file that the "sync loss reason 11" occurs when entering and during idle settings (VE and spark). Any thoughts about this?

Thanks

[wrenchdad]

With it happening at idle RPMs, it could just be you need to adjust the pots on the cam signal a bit and see if that will clear it up.

later wd

[eraezer]

Hello,
as I've written above, I'm using a dual-VR board so no pots for me.

[jsmcortina]

On page 143 of the composite log there are multiple false cam triggers. Almost certainly noise getting into the cam signal. If you haven't already, try adding a "shunt" resistor between cam+ and cam- at the ECU. e.g. try 10k.

James

[eraezer]

Ok, I'll try that. Thanks for the tip James. And just to be certain, this should be done for the cam sync sensor?

In the thread beside mine, the OP has grounded the extra sensor in the cas (2 for the 24 teeth wheel, one is not used and one sensor for the one tooth sync wheel), can this help with noise?

[wrenchdad]

I grounded my unused G trigger right at the dizzy,

wd

[eraezer]

Ok, i'll try that before i try a shunt resistor.

[eraezer]

Hello,
I just wanted to do a follow up of this thread since my supra is now running again.

As soon as I got it out of my garage I went to fill it up with fuel. After around 180 km I went back to the same fuel station and pump. The fuel consumption has gone down about 0.3 liters/10km! And I'm still tuning, plus I'm quite heavy on the throttle

I think alot of this has to do with the spark duration setting which I increased from 0.1 ms to 0.7 ms.

BUT
I have made some hardware changes: I built a new ffim myself and installed a new and bigger intercooler. This required a new throttle body and some new intercooler pipes. None of these are pressure tested yet, but the old system was and it had no leaks.

I'm still having the not synced indicator on and sync loss reason 11. But those seem to be "fake" since I have no problems according to the composite logger and no missfires and such.

I have a spare CPS which I'm modifying to see if anything will happen. I'm removing one sensor, replacing the wiring and separating the sensor grounds.

[TerrenceLP]

Hello,
I'm still having the not synced indicator on and sync loss reason 11. But those seem to be "fake" since I have no problems according to the composite logger and no missfires and such.

I have a spare CPS which I'm modifying to see if anything will happen. I'm removing one sensor, replacing the wiring and separating the sensor grounds.

How did this workout? I'm very interested in knowing if a modded CPS works cleaner than stock.

[eraezer]

Hi
I haven't had time to test that yet. I will have it in for the next season though.
Through another thread I found this which might also fix it since they are describing the same symptoms as I have:
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article ... _index.htm