Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

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87shelbycharger
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Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by 87shelbycharger »

As I understand, I can use MS3(X) to control the alternator. I haven't been able to find more information on this other than the fact that it was possible

Anyway, I've got a Dodge 2.4L turbocharged engine, running full sequential, with MS3 and MS3X. I would like to control my voltage output via MS3. I'm running the standard 2 wire alternator such as the attached picture. There is a description at the bottom and it mentions that MS3 can control alternator in place of an external voltage regualtor.
Neon MS3 alternator setup.JPG
Any wiring and settings assistance or guidance would really be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Pat
Matt Cramer
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by Matt Cramer »

Most of the existing alternator control installations have used some form of circuitry inside the alternator; Chrysler simply is controlling the field coil current directly. I'd recommend checking the resistance of the field coil.

5.5 ohms or more - could theoretically be driven with a MS3X output.
3 to 5.5 ohms - an MS3-Pro high current output may be able to run this, but not the MS3X.
Under 3 ohms - don't even try this!
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
dll67
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by dll67 »

So are there any instructions for how to connect the ms3 to the alternator?
Im using a honda alternator(nippondenso) and want to control it using my ms3
Can I connect it directly or do I need a something in between to protect the ms3?
MS3PU/IOx/CAN-EGT/DBWx2 540ci BBC 325cc int runners (2)innovate LC2 wbo2's, Hilborn ITB injector cnvrtd to EFI, 55LB Inj, d585 coil near plg, 60-2 trg whl & cam ph snsr, Muncie 4spd w/10T VSS, Tilton 7.25" cerametalic cltch 8.5LB flywhl
redmist
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by redmist »

Interested as well, I am also using a Denso style alternator It has warming light, Sense, Ignition, and main charge for hookups.
1968 Dodge Charger, 446ci 513HP/542ftlbs,Full sequential fuel/Spark using MS3X. Jeep CPS, Ford Crank sensor, 36-1 wheel, Coil near plug with D-585 ls2 coil packs. Edelbrock pro-flo intake, 600cc injectors, GM MAP, TPS, IACV, CTS, MAT. 92mm Throttle Body.
Matt Cramer
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by Matt Cramer »

Hondas are totally different (at least throughout the '90s). They have a signal that, when left alone, gives full voltage and when grounded through an on/off output drops the voltage to a lower voltage to reduce drag.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
superdavemotorsports
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by superdavemotorsports »

http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcon ... =auto_pres

In my research to get this working heres a paper I found describing how these dual mode alternators work. More specifically what each of the various wires do.
Read the paper at the above link.
rabid
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by rabid »

superdavemotorsports wrote:http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcon ... =auto_pres

In my research to get this working heres a paper I found describing how these dual mode alternators work. More specifically what each of the various wires do.
Read the paper at the above link.
I just want to thank you for posting this link.
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by ntstlgl1970 »

I Measured the field coil on my alternator (using alternator from an 09 challenger) and it measures 1.5 ohms. Upon reading the description of the circuit from chrysler, I was wondering if I can use the injector outputs from the 3.57 card to run the alternator field similar to what chrysler mentions here
Matt Cramer
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by Matt Cramer »

ntstlgl1970 wrote:I Measured the field coil on my alternator (using alternator from an 09 challenger) and it measures 1.5 ohms. Upon reading the description of the circuit from chrysler, I was wondering if I can use the injector outputs from the 3.57 card to run the alternator field similar to what chrysler mentions here
Yes. Use high speed field switching mode. This will require a very high current output as it can mean 10 amps - the injector outputs will do this, though.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
ntstlgl1970
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by ntstlgl1970 »

Matt Cramer wrote:
ntstlgl1970 wrote:I Measured the field coil on my alternator (using alternator from an 09 challenger) and it measures 1.5 ohms. Upon reading the description of the circuit from chrysler, I was wondering if I can use the injector outputs from the 3.57 card to run the alternator field similar to what chrysler mentions here
Yes. Use high speed field switching mode. This will require a very high current output as it can mean 10 amps - the injector outputs will do this, though.
cool - thanks for the info
CRF_MS
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by CRF_MS »

One of the things that I learn the hard way was that for the Mazda alternator (and sounds like the Honda as well), is while it control via the High-Speed feedback field control feature, it does require a modification to make it work. You can use any standard MS3X Mid-current output to control the alternator, the MS3X is grounding the line to the alternator, where as the alternator needs a signal that goes between ground and +5 (for the Mazda, the Honda might need +12) to control it, so the MS3X output needs to be modified to have a pull up resistor to +5 volts for it to work correctly.
rabid
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by rabid »

The honda alternator pulls its control wire high (12 volt) and the ecu pulls it down to reduce the output voltage.
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by jsmcortina »

For a 0-5V output signal you could use PT4.

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rabid
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by rabid »

To add to the alternator control information here. A word of caution. I've killed several honda alternators by using pid control. For example I would setup a target of 13.8 volts. It would keep it at 13.8 volts very nicely until it wouldn't. I've been testing the honda alternator with LiFePO4 batteries so I don't know if the problems would happen with lead acid. Also it could be my luck. I would like to know if anyone else has used alternator control to target voltage with the honda alternator. It was also a great way to setup the injector voltage characteristics too. Right now I'm running a small battery tender brand LiFePO4 and letting the alternator do the regulating. I hope that works better.
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by Matt Cramer »

The Honda alternators I've worked with were intended for a very basic on/off control. They weren't intended to have their field electronics pulsed off and on rapidly.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
rabid
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by rabid »

Do we ever use things as intended around here?
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by jsmcortina »

rabid wrote:Do we ever use things as intended around here?
It can be a good idea though if you break things otherwise.

James
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ntstlgl1970
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by ntstlgl1970 »

I have my alternator hooked up as discussed here, but it just overcharges constantly 18V... Not sure what is going on. Have tried sensing both normal and inverted, no diffference. Tried closed loop field same problem..

any ideas?

thanks
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by jsmcortina »

What type of alternator?

James
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ntstlgl1970
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Re: Alternator Control via MS3 wiring and settings help

Post by ntstlgl1970 »

jsmcortina wrote:What type of alternator?

James
09 dodge challenger alternator. I also confirmed that I have the voltage and field wiring correct. (Pin #1 key on power, Pin #2 to inj1 on the 3.57 mainboard)
Last edited by ntstlgl1970 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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