MS3 install on CA18DET

[ctchme]

Hey guys and girls, im in the process of wiring up my new engine to a ms3 controller, i havent gone for the expansion card at this stage, however im having a very hard time finding any documentation to support just ms3 on the stock ignition system, can anyone either help me with the wiring as I have learnt there is two signals i can use (High res & low res) much like on an rb/vg/sr engine.

any help would be greatly appreciated

[mazdaspeed]

Does the ca18 have a single coil or multi coil?

[jsmcortina]

See here:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/nissancas.html

James

[ctchme]

Does the ca18 have a single coil or multi coil?

multi coil (coil on plug system) but wasted spark only

See here:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/nissancas.html

James

James that wiring schematic is for ms3x, as stated I don't have the expansion board

[jsmcortina]

There are no instructions on using the Nissan CAS without the MS3X.

James

[richyvrlimited]

James, from you link the CA18DET just uses the '4G63' CAS. Can the OP not just follow the MS2 4G63, (or one of the many many MK1 MX5 / miata), instructions to modify the mainboard?

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_4g63.htm

[jsmcortina]

The plug is the same, but the trigger pattern is totally different.

James

[mazdaspeed]

Maybe you could use a 4g63 disk instead of the nissan? It will support cop ignition and timed inj using the main board

[jsmcortina]

If I was going to change the disc, I'd use one with a reasonable pattern - like the replacements that DIYautotune sell.

The CA18T has the 360 tooth design (too many teeth) and the 4G63 has a crude 4 tooth design (not enough teeth.)

James

[mazdaspeed]

Thats true. altho ive had good solid timing with the 4g63 on many instals. from memory ms2 and 3 read the rising and falling edge angles of the disk basicly making it an 8 tooth wheel?

[livelyjay]

James, I'm currently in the process of installing MS3 on my CA18DET as well. I went for the full MS3 plus the MS3X expansion card specifically because it will allow the use of the factory Nissan CAS. Without the expansion card, I'm not sure you can use the OEM CAS and you'll have to install a 36-1 trigger wheel and hall sensor. That's what I was told from the tech rep at DIY.

[ctchme]

Thanks for the info James, sorry its taken so long to get back to you, ive gone with the expansion board, and am just about ready to start it up, i just wanted to check one more thing with u. on the setup page u linked to earlier, it states in the settings area to set spark mode to your engine, either sr20 or rb25, there isnt an option for ca18, would i be best going with the sr20? or a different spark mode?

Many thanks,
Matt

[jsmcortina]

Yes, SR20 mode works with CA18. I have a CA18 CAS here and have tested it.

James

[ctchme]

Yes, SR20 mode works with CA18. I have a CA18 CAS here and have tested it.

James

Thanks heaps just getting timing sync'd now

[jsmcortina]

Be sure to use the latest pre-1.3.3 beta code also.

James

[livelyjay]

How is the install going on the CA18DET? Towards the end of the month I'm going to be getting back into my project. I have the MS3 built with the expansion board, but haven't hooked up the CAS yet to test it out. What road blocks have you run into?


James, why is there a need to run the pre-1.3.3 beta code? Not sure what code I'm running as I haven't updated since around May.

[jsmcortina]

Read the post and all will become clear
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic ... 25&t=56019

James

[livelyjay]

James, thanks for the note. I'll update my MS3 as soon as I get back to work on it.

ctchme, how is the install going?

[livelyjay]

Haven't been on here in a while, mostly because it's winter, and I lost motivation after building the MS3, which was really fun to do.

I want to get a nice checklist/plan together for spring so I can get motivated and keep motivated to get this car running. I have the ECU built but I still need to update to the beta software with the SR20 style CAS support. Beyond that, what's the course of action I should take to see this project through to completion?

1) Should I bench test components (injectors, spark, CAS) or should I just start installing on the car?
2) Should I rip out the OEM ECU, or does it still have some value?
3) What steps should I go through to make sure my first start-up test is successful?
4) Is using the relay board kind of useless since I'm using MS3X?
5) Is the switched 12v on the relay board 12v out or 12v in?

Here's an initial attempt at a wiring diagram for the entire system. Hard to see but the relay board will be installed in a project box and the MS3X harness will pass into that box with wires being distributed out from the box.

[morrische]

Just my thoughts.......... There are 2 Idle valves (i never have been able to drive them propperly --> to have idle) One is conected to the output of the FP relay (Called Air Regulator). Means if the fuelpump is on there is current on this valve (i think for warmup only) and the other one is for idle (the A.A.C). Then there is a idleup valve for the aircon. (FICD)

The valve in the Vakum line of the fuelreg is just active for 180s after start. It's mainly just to rise fuel pressure during start

Make sure that the ignition signal wich is coming out of your ms3 is the triggers the right way. I checked this mainly by touch and feel the COP's. checked them frequently and when you have it the wrong way round they get very fast very hot (not sure of the triggerlevel voltage 5 or 12V nor of rising falling edge but had it o a scope one day)

Then i would buy the needed harnesses from DIY Autotune (the DB9 short Pigtail ones) and a old OEM ECU. Then just unmount the OEM, unsolder the connector, solder the MS3 DB9 pigtail to it isolate everything nicely and ta taaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.............. Clean solution. And if your MS3 looses programmation and you are somwhere in nowhere just unplug MS3 and connect the OEM ECU again and back to track............

Before you start your engine make sure you have your cables sorted. You can check in the test mode secion of Tunerstudio if you wired the Ignitors/injecors.......... and so on the right way.........

If there are any questions about setting up your CA18DET feel free to ask. The only thing is it's not my car and we are far away from something like a tuned Ignition or VE or Boost map (we drove the car like 1 year ago with ms3 on german highway for autotune (no speed limit's in some areas ).........

Just one more thing. I see in your picture the groud wire of the sensors. From the MS3 to CLT from there to the optical disc from there to the Idle valve (now definitivley ther is some serious duty cycle current on the sensor ground) and then to the Airregulator valve (wich is manly a heater element some more current for 180s after start).
You would make your life a lot easier if you route the cables according to the external wiring diagram. There are some grounds for Power, i think, and some for sensors.If i can help you with anything just ask..........