MS3 install on CA18DET

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livelyjay
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Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by livelyjay »

The air regulator gets 5 volts for 5 seconds from the time the fuel pump turns on. There's also logic in place in case you shut your car off before starting it. I did a bunch of research on this when I was troubleshooting why my car can't startup/idle with the factory ECU. It was a while ago and I can't remember off hand the logic, but the FSM spells the entire thing out.

I like your idea of splicing into the OEM harness where applicable, but I eventually want to get rid of the entire harness altogether because it's a shoddy mess. There's also something wrong with what I did before that I can't resolve, hence the need to go standalone. Instead of being a smart person and running off of the CA18DE ECU, I swapped the CA18DET ECU plug wire by wire onto my OEM loom. I set idle using the idle cable and did get 100 miles out of the thing, but I could never get it to run right. After troubleshooting the idle control mess for a while I gave up.

So I think I'll connect the MS3 into the OEM harness as far as 12v, ground, switched 12v are concerned. I'll do the same for the coils, injectors, coolant temperature sensor, and TPS. I might be able to use the idle valve wires directly from the OEM harness. Not sure about the air regulator. The CAM sensor needs special wiring at the MS3 (resistors and such) but that could also happen right at the MS3 harness.

I got the MS3 relay board because I wanted to bypass all the old wiring junk in the car. Since it would be nice to just get the thing running I think I'll bypass using it for now and use OEM wiring.

Am I missing anything for just the earliest beginning stages of getting this in the car?
morrische
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Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by morrische »

The thing with the OEM harness is that you know for sure that it works..... If you do right away your own one troubleshooting will be more problematic...... Once overything is woring nice ond smooth like you want (probably some more cables for boost, water injection, EGT,........) you could make your own one.

How you want to do the harness. Cut a old one in pieces and solder the "own" one between? Then you have to consider that there are 2 aditional "failure point's" in your harness (soldered cable will break easyli at the solderpoint). At this point i would look for the pins of the connector , cable sealings (for the connectorhousings), and probably a crimp tool and cable spool's............

With just a connector of a OEM ECU (buy the cheapest one you see. you just need the connector) and the pigtail harneses from diyautotune (also the ceapest one vou see) you can easyli solder this thing together (actually you can do this sitting at the desk instead of beeing in crazy position soldering in the car!!!! And you just have 1 solderpoint wich is the cable to the OEM connector where you can easyli apply heatshrinks and, to seal it, even hotglue when everything is wired up the right way..... ) Solder the Injector channels from the MS3 to the harness..... walk to the car, change ECU check in testmode what you did....... and so on..........

Just thinking..............

But for now looks right..........
livelyjay
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Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by livelyjay »

Finally digging into this project and reading through the documentation and I have some questions. On DIYAutoTune's website it has some information about hardware/software setup and it differs from how my board is set up right now and I want to make sure my board is correct before I move any further.

1. I just installed latest firmware 1.3.4
2. Tech article found here -> http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article ... _discs.htm
3. It says for v3.0 jumper TechSelect to VRIN. I did this.
4. It says for v3.0 jumper TSEL to VROUT. I have TSEL connected to VROUTINV right now. Is this correct or do I need to switch it?
5. It says for v3.0 run 1k resistor from S12 to TachSelect or use a 1k pullup from 12v to pin 24. I have S12 connected to D1, side marked with a c, on the MS3X board. Is this correct?
6. It says to install JP7. I did this.
Matt Cramer
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Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by Matt Cramer »

Can you post a composite log of an attempted start and your current MSQ?
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
livelyjay
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Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:48 am

Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by livelyjay »

I have not yet hooked the MS3 up to the car yet. Not sure if that matters for grabbing a composite log that means anything. This is how I have the board configured per the instructions I read initially.

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livelyjay
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Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by livelyjay »

So this is the main reason for my confusion. The MS3 manual says one thing, and the DIYAutoTune site says another.
Hardware setup appears to be the same, so my main board needs to be updated because I am going to VROUTINV and not VROUT. Is that correct?.
Software config is different between two information sites. Which one do I use?

MS3XV30_Hardware-1.3.pdf, page 168 says:
Set the mainboard as per section 5.2.4
a) Solder a link between VRIN and TACHSELECT
b) Solder a wire between VrOUT and TSEL
Typical settings:
Spark mode = Nissan SR20
Trigger angle/offset = Start at 0 deg - adjust while strobing timing.
Ignition input capture = Falling edge
Number of coils = Coil on plug
Flip polarity on hi-res should be set to "Inverted"

DIYAutoTune's web site says the following:
Mainboard
Jumper TachSelect to VRIN.
Jumper TSEL to VROUT.
Run a 1K resistor from S12 to TachSelect.
Software
Spark mode: Toothed Wheel
Ignition input capture: Rising Edge
Spark output will depend on what output setup you're using. QuadSparks use Going High / Inverted; so do OEM SR20DET ignition modules. Getting this setting wrong can damage the ignition module and/or coils. If the ignition module or coils get hot with the key on and the engine off, turn the key off immediately and select the opposite output setting.
Trigger wheel arrangement: Dual wheel with missing tooth
Trigger wheel teeth: 12
Missing Teeth: 1
Tooth #1 angle: 345 (This varies slightly between individual engines. Check with a timing light and adjust as needed.)
Wheel speed: Crank wheel
Second trigger active on: Poll Level
Matt Cramer
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Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by Matt Cramer »

There are two different ways to set it up. VROUTINV can be used with the settings on our page. Now that they've added a setting to flip the high-res tach signal, you can also use the settings that use VROUT and the high res tach polarity flipped.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
livelyjay
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Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 6:48 am

Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by livelyjay »

Thanks for the input. I was worried I did something wrong. I'll pay attention to the coil pack/ignition module temperature when I finally get this thing hooked up. I'll also add in the jumpers recommended in section 13.4, since that wasn't in the manual when I read through it (or I skipped it thinking I'd never need it).


So for the software portion, which setup do I use (SR20 versus Toothed Wheel)?
Matt Cramer
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Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by Matt Cramer »

SR20.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
livelyjay
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Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by livelyjay »

Thanks very much for the help. I'll spend some time this weekend getting the CAN and four other jumpers installed, CAM settings changed, and get the base maps set up. That being said, how does my current wiring diagram look at a glance?

1) Does MS3X always fire A, B, C, D no matter what you set the firing order to in the software? So I would have to wire A -> 1, B -> 3, C -> 4, D -> 2?
2) Do I attach anything to the MS3 pins 1, 2, 25 (Crank signal & ground)?
3) Do I attach anything to the MS3X pin 27 (Cam In)?
4) Does MS3X override the PWM output on MS3 pin 30? My setup has two idle valves and a solenoid to activate secondary intake runners. I was figuring I could use PWM for one valve, IDLE for the second vale, and VVT for the intake runner solenoid.

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Matt Cramer
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Re: MS3 install on CA18DET

Post by Matt Cramer »

Pin 25 is not used, and the firing order is hard-coded.
Matt Cramer -1966 Dodge Dart slant six running on MS3X
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