MS3 new documentation discussion

General support questions and announcements for MS3. See also MS3 manuals.

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mr_minnis
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by mr_minnis »

additional MAF formula:

Can you include the one for when VE1 is used as a trim table ?

I don't think there is one for if "incorporate AFR table " is unchecked. The way MAF is implemented That has to be checked. I don't know if that is something you would want to mention because it is in how the fueling is calculated.
88 Stang LX Vert. 3.73s and MS3x, D585 Coils AEM EPM
mr_minnis
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by mr_minnis »

here is something else that might be helpful:

The units all have default values for all the settings. It would be nice for a new user to know what settings need to be tweaked. something like a section under each one that says "How to know if this needs to be modified." list symptoms for incorrectly set settings. This wouldn't be for all the settings just ones for like dead time, battery correction, dwell battery correction and some of the idle value duty things.
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jsmcortina
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by jsmcortina »

mr_minnis wrote:It would be nice for a new user to know what settings need to be tweaked.
That's very tricky to cover as there are so many possibilities.

James
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jsmcortina
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by jsmcortina »

New manual posted:
Megasquirt 3 TunerStudio Reference
http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/Megasqui ... ce-1.3.pdf

The next MS3 firmware releases will contain hyperlinks directly to the correct manual page within TunerStudio.

I'm going to proceed to archive off the web manuals for MS3 now.

James
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by jsmcortina »

The dev releases MS3-pre1.3.3beta4 and MS3-pre1.4alpha5 that I just put out include automatic linkage to the TunerStudio help file.

James
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mr_minnis
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by mr_minnis »

I just read the tuner studio manual. Looks really good. I think it is great that the newer firmware will link to the help. the old "tool tips "were OK but this is information . Things will be so much easier for the new users.

this is to be taken as a joke "With the 1.4 release have you started on a guide for that ?"
88 Stang LX Vert. 3.73s and MS3x, D585 Coils AEM EPM
nuvolarossa
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by nuvolarossa »

wow the amount of new docs is overwhelming! I wasn't expecting that much.
Good job!
Robert
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by 5.3LS10 »

James,

I recently was having an issue with RPM input on a MS3X. I followed the documentation for the LS1 tunerstudio settings and it said to have the Ignition Input Capture set to falling edge but for mine it works with rising edge only. I was able to verify these settings on a MS2 I have running wasted spark for an LS 24x engine. Both the MS2V30 and MS3XV30 hardware manuals have this in them.

And around page 154 they both say Falling edge?? Should it in fact be Rising edge and who do we contact in regards to changes/updated needing done to the documentation if it is in fact wrong.

Any reason mine would start working if that was the wrong setting?

Thanks,
Shane
Shane
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dancrev
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by dancrev »

5.3LS10 wrote:I followed the documentation for the LS1 tunerstudio settings and it said to have the Ignition Input Capture set to falling edge but for mine it works with rising edge only.
I have a 5.3 LS1 and I have Ignition Input Capture set to rising edge. I'm using firmware 1.2.4 and I believe I followed the manual pages that were posted at the time (about a year ago). Possibly a typo???

-Dan
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by 5.3LS10 »

dancrev wrote:
5.3LS10 wrote:I followed the documentation for the LS1 tunerstudio settings and it said to have the Ignition Input Capture set to falling edge but for mine it works with rising edge only.
I have a 5.3 LS1 and I have Ignition Input Capture set to rising edge. I'm using firmware 1.2.4 and I believe I followed the manual pages that were posted at the time (about a year ago). Possibly a typo???

-Dan
Thats what I am thinking since it is incorrect for both the MS2 and MS3 documentation. Just wanted to make aware so it can be changed during the next revision.
Shane
-1986 Olds Cutlass 370ci 6.0L LS3 top end, TSP 231/236 .641"/.615" 111LSA, MS3x, T56, 8.8, 4.10 Gears, Spec twin disc clutch
-2000 S10 5.3L, LJMS turbo cam, 4L80e, 8.8, S480 Turbo, MS3x
prof315
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by prof315 »

Question concerning using an MSD or other CD ignition box. The old manuals say to use fixed dwell with them but the new manuals ( here and MS2 ) say to use normal dwell. Typo?
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jsmcortina
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by jsmcortina »

The "fixed dwell" advise actually dates back to MS1 before I'd written dwell control (!)

One customer made a good suggestion that by using dwell control you do mimic the points input more closely and you can be sure that you got the input and output polarities set correctly. With 50% duty and even more so with 50% input duty from TFI it can get confusing.

James
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prof315
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by prof315 »

Ok thanks James! I'll use standard dwell on this install and update my other customers. One more question, is it still ok to use a high current driver (BIP373) to trigger the MSD ?
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by jsmcortina »

prof315 wrote:Ok thanks James! I'll use standard dwell on this install and update my other customers. One more question, is it still ok to use a high current driver (BIP373) to trigger the MSD ?
Yes, that's still fine.

James
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prof315
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by prof315 »

Great! Thanks very much again James.

Jeff
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Matt Cramer
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by Matt Cramer »

prof315 wrote:Ok thanks James! I'll use standard dwell on this install and update my other customers. One more question, is it still ok to use a high current driver (BIP373) to trigger the MSD ?
Apparently MSD put out one or two versions (I think it was one of the older Digital 6 variants) that didn't like that a BIP373 only pulled the voltage down to around 1 volt instead of zero. Most of them are perfectly fine with being driven off a BIP373.
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by prof315 »

Well this is an MSD 6T and my other customers use 6ALs driven with a BIP373 and they all work so.....
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elaw
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by elaw »

James,

I hadn't had much time to look at the 3X/3.0 hardware manual until recently... wow! It's obvious you've put a lot of work into it and it looks fantastic.

If I could offer one tiny criticism... on page 25 you show photos of two oxygen sensors. I'd be a little worried that an inexperienced person might be led to think that any sensor with 1 wire is a narrowband and any with a bundle of wires is a wideband which of course is not the case. It might actually be clearer if you only had 1 photo labeled "Oxygen/Lambda sensor".
Eric Law
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jsmcortina
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by jsmcortina »

Or maybe add a photo of a 4-wire narrowband?

James
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dragbug
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Re: MS3 new documentation discussion

Post by dragbug »

First issue/suggestion, on page 64 section 5.2.5 references "gear-tooth sensor" as though it's a completely different type of sensor. To my simple mind, all of the sensors discussed from 5.2.2 to 5.2.8 are a gear-tooth sensor of some sort. You have VR, Hall and optical correct? But 5.2.5 just seems out of place. And it adds confusion because the picture shows a Honeywell which looks identical to the one DIYAutotune.com sells (and even says as such). Why even bother with that section at all? Or at least use a picture of the DIYAutotune.com sensor and mention the similarly looking Honeywell is not suitable for missing tooth crank wheels? Also, that specific section says these sensors are Hall sensors. If you go to DIYautotune.com to buy one it does in fact list it as a Hall but in the description it talks about setting it up as a VR but the manual only lists sections 5.2.3 and 5.2.4 dealing with Hall. To me its a big confusing circle jerk that makes someone like me have to open multiple sources of documentation to see what my specific sensor is/does and how to connect it.

Section 5.2.3 and 5.2.4 shows how to connect Hall sensors. In the picture, it shows a shielded cable. Is this the same cable that comes from DIYAutotune.com? Because the picture looks like the 12v wire is inside of the shielded cable as well as the signal wire, the ground wire and the shield its self. But the wire I got from DIYAutotune.com looks more like the picture in section 5.2.2 for the VR sensor with just a signal wire, ground and shield wire.

The last thing I would like to suggest is any time the MS pinout is referenced, could a reference for the relay board be included? I realize that for the electrical engineers out there, this stuff is wicked easy. But for noobs like me, when I am following the manual and it says to hook up the VR sensor to megasquirt pin 24 and the coil spark wire to megasquirt pin 36, I look at my relay board and I am like "wtf" is that on here?? Speaking of relay board. Since it is suggested as a good way to simplify basic wiring, I think it should have it's own section in these manuals to help people understand when it is used (basic MS3 installs) and when it may not be used for everything (MS3x).

A small section should be dedicated for people that start with an MS3 and later add in the MS3x card. What gets changed on the MS3 if anything. Something like that.

I think that's all I can think of for now. I am sure there are other things but these parts were the most confusing for me. Over all, I think the manual is pretty well done especially for something as technical as this is. I just think sometimes it over simplifies stuff, leaves out important things, adds in to many things and occasionally doesn't simplify some things enough. Thank you for taking the time to write this manual though. Without it I would never have bothered building the MS from scratch.
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