Snow Performance Water Pump

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mike_tosen
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Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by mike_tosen »

From what I can see, the stage 2 Snow Performance kit, has a control module that somehow modulated the pump into supplying progressively more volume based on MAP pressure.
I would like to know if anybody knows how this pump works - does it vary the voltage to achieve this, or does the controller use PWM to vary it ?

I would like to use my MS3x to control this, but first have to find out if it is possible to control the pump before I commit to buying the snow kit.

Thanks
MonzaRacer
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Re: Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by MonzaRacer »

IF I remember correctly you use the Snow controller. It has its own map sensor installed.
As for controlling the water/methanol injection you could build your own system. Here is link to home built unit that works.
http://www.turbomirage.com/water-alcoho ... -list.html
I did some research and one of the nozzles and the cut off solenoid are no longer serviced.
BUT as I had an old holley water injection kit it never had any shut off solenoids, just check valves.
A little intuitive thinking and getting creative would suffice, and you could buy the Snow Controller separate if needed.
Honestly a pair of Hobbs switches would work well, as for MORE flow I believe you could actually STAGE it if needed but for most systems up to around 500-600 hp much more than a two step might not be needed.
Depending on your boost desire/requirements.
The Hobbs switches are not horrible in price, a little creative design with drill press and tap could set you up a small block of aluminum with multiple ports, then adjust each switch to operate at different pressure and run through resistors to adjust pump speed.
Heck Snow only gives two size nozzles and unless your over 25psi boost you dont even need a system upgrade according too them.
And a little creative digging should provide you with a plan too build a PWM controller of your own.
Honestly the most I would task MS with would be the master on/off, ie if MS sees boost it allows w/m injection too become active, but if I could make it a system that is active when key is on and engine is under boost or load independent of MS that would be a fail safe security against unprotected boost.
Just my thoughts.
mike_tosen
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Re: Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by mike_tosen »

The difference between the stage 1 and the stage 2 kit from snow is only the controller.
So I was hoping someone had experience and could tell me what the controller does to the signal at the pump.
If it varies the voltage, it would be possible to build a frequency to voltage converter or similar, still hook it up to the MS water injection part and run it from there.
Or if it is straight PWM controlled, even better.

Would be a lot cheaper to buy the stage 1 kit, and rather use the MS3 functionality that is already there :-)

Nobody with experiance with these kits ?
vw_chuck
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Re: Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by vw_chuck »

You can't directly control a 10+ amp pump via PWM with megasquirt. I think the max current is 4 amps or something like that. You can always PWM the solenoid to control flow.
sheek
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Re: Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by sheek »

DOESNT the mainboard injectors support up to 14 amps?
mike_tosen
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Re: Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by mike_tosen »

Not a problem building an external driver for it, that is not the concern.
The kit also does not work with a solenoid, the controller circuit interfaces directly to the pump to control the pressure - I need to know how that controller does that - what does the pump need - PWM or variable voltage ...

Would be cool to figure it out and build a small external driver for it, that way we could run the cheap stage 1 kit with a external driver off the megasquirt - and have a fully progressive injection system :-)

P.S. The stage 1 and stage 2 kits all use the exactly same pump, jets, etc - all that is different is the controller - and I am sure if we can find out what that controller does - we can run it "straight" off the MS3 :-)

Anybody have a stage 2 snow performance kit that can measure/monitor the output and give is some feedback as to the output of the controller ?
MonzaRacer
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Re: Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by MonzaRacer »

YEEESSSHHHH,
WHY are you trying to OVER CONTROL something? IF you buy a Snow performance kit just let the controller do the work, you might just let MS activate the master relay. But WHY?
I mean honestly I have installed simple kits to the Snow products and most of them are engineered to work fine without trying to reinvent the control set up.
But if your gonna run water/meth injection just go here http://www.turbomirage.com/water-alcoho ... -list.html, buy some parts and go for it.
But trying to control a larger water pump with MS is just silly. Use MS maybe to rpm switch the control side, use a master switch to control the heavy load side of a relay.
I had a simple Holley kit, it ran on vacuum switch and worked perfectly. Simple works so much better than trying to complicate or OVER think the control of a water/meth kit.
I remember the car mags doing a piece on a Goodman setup, it puffed out a fog of atomized water/alcohol and even on NA engines it helped on power and mileage and the results on an engine after a month, they pulled a head and the pistons were spotless.
Good Luck what ever you do.
prof315
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Re: Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by prof315 »

sheek wrote:DOESNT the mainboard injectors support up to 14 amps?
Yes and they work quite well for PWM control of a water injection pump..... Use the High frequency setting
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93supercoupe
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Re: Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by 93supercoupe »

I took an AEM kit and used Injector 1 output to turn a relay on to control the pump power

then i took Injector 2 output and went directly to the pump negative

It works well. Responds well to PWM changes in the table.
BootlegTuned
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Re: Snow Performance Water Pump

Post by Activate »

Interesting...

I have a ms3x and I haved use the MS3x for the 8 coils and the 8 injectors, so I have the stock injectordrivers for controlling my Shureflo pump?

You are not using a solenoid only a checkvalve?

Can you make a picture of the waterinjection section?

Thanks and greetings,

Erik.
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